Discussion:
Ubuntu clock and windows clock.
(too old to reply)
bilsch01
2020-10-25 04:34:00 UTC
Permalink
My pc dual boots Ubuntu 20.04 and Windows 10. The windows clock has a
setting that says 'set time automatically'. It seems to set the windows
clock to the value of the 'system time' in the BIOS.

Ubuntu clock setting. Ubuntu apparently looks on the internet and
determines GMT and sets ubuntu clock based on that and the time zone set
in ubuntu settings. At the same time ubuntu also sets the BIOS system
time to the value of GMT it determined from the internet.

If I boot ubuntu and then boot windows the windows clock displays GMT.
So I have to set the windows clock.

QUESTION: is there any way to get windows to actually set the time
automatically, like implied by the setting that says: 'set time
automatically' ? Or can it only set the windows clock to the BIOS time?

QUESTION: Is there any way to prevent ubuntu from setting the BIOS
system time?

TIA. Bill S.
Mike Easter
2020-10-25 12:14:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by bilsch01
My pc dual boots Ubuntu 20.04 and Windows 10. The windows clock has a
setting that says 'set time automatically'. It seems to set the
windows clock to the value of the 'system time' in the BIOS.
Ubuntu clock setting. Ubuntu apparently looks on the internet and
determines GMT and sets ubuntu clock based on that and the time zone
set in ubuntu settings. At the same time ubuntu also sets the BIOS
system time to the value of GMT it determined from the internet.
Arch wiki disagrees w/ that assessment; if we are talking about an
install of Ubuntu, ie dual boot.

Booting live Ub is another matter about this clock business.
Post by bilsch01
If I boot ubuntu and then boot windows the windows clock displays
GMT. So I have to set the windows clock.
From what you've said, I can't tell if 'boot Ubuntu' means live or
means dual boot install.
Post by bilsch01
QUESTION: is there any way to get windows to actually set the time
automatically, like implied by the setting that says: 'set time
automatically' ? Or can it only set the windows clock to the BIOS time?
'Normal' default Win wants the hardware clock to be localtime.
Post by bilsch01
QUESTION: Is there any way to prevent ubuntu from setting the BIOS
system time?
Do you mean installed or live?
You could of course have used a search engine instead of asking here...
<https://www.howtogeek.com/323390/how-to-fix-windows-and-linux-showing-different-times-when-dual-booting/>
That is a good article, particularly in how concisely he outlines the
problems and chooses a solution. I also agree w/ the choice of making a
'windows decision' of hardware clock to local time rather than a linux
decision of hardware clock to UTC.

My critique would be that he chose only a systemd-related command
solution rather than a graphical one (or a non-systemd one). The
advantage of course is that it simplifies the answer, because graphical
solutions are going to depend upon the DE, but the disadvantage is that
it doesn't address the non-systemd popular distro/s such as MX (and
anti-X) which have excellent graphical solutions to this issue.

Since the question was posed as an Ubuntu issue, we might also seek a
graphical Ub solution besides the systemd timedatectl commands of the
article. I booted a live Ub 20.04.1 to see if I could find a Gnome
graphical answer. It turns out that Gnome doesn't provide adequate
access graphically to manage this issue, so in the case of Gnome, the
timedatectl or hwclock command strategies are all that is available in
the default.

The Arch wiki alleges that Ubuntu 'automatically' favors the Win
solution "Ubuntu and its derivatives have the hardware clock set to be
interpreted as in "localtime" if Windows was detected on any disk during
Ubuntu installation. This is apparently done deliberately to allow new
Linux users to try out Ubuntu on their Windows computers without editing
the registry."

That answer isn't very good/accurate if 'try out Ubuntu' means booting a
live Ub. If I boot a live Ubuntu, naturally the tz isn't set and the
hardware clock is UTC.



https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/System_time
--
Mike Easter
Mike Easter
2020-10-25 16:41:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Easter
My critique would be that he chose only a systemd-related command
solution rather than a graphical one (or a non-systemd one).  The
advantage of course is that it simplifies the answer, because graphical
solutions are going to depend upon the DE, but the disadvantage is that
it doesn't address the non-systemd popular distro/s such as MX (and
anti-X) which have excellent graphical solutions to this issue.
I tho't it would have been easier to find a GUI tool for handling
hwclock, but so far I have only found MX Date & Time, described as 'GUI
program for setting the time and date in MX Linux'.

It has tabs for date & time which includes tz setting, hardware clock
which has tz for hardware clock, time transfer of system clock to
hardware and vice versa, drift updater, and a network time tab. Very
nice; more distros should provide that type of GUI control, especially
for those who are coming from Windows.

What Arch wiki says/alleges about how Ubuntu 'handles' it doesn't seem
to be adequate at all. Ubuntu should handle it like MX/Anti-X handles it.

Not that there is anything wrong w/ using the command line; just that
one should have a *choice* between the command line and a gui tool.
Linux is about choice.
--
Mike Easter
Mike Easter
2020-10-25 16:43:50 UTC
Permalink
so far I have only found MX Date & Time, described as 'GUI program for
setting the time and date in MX Linux'.
https://mxlinux.org/wiki/help-files/date-time/ This application
provides access to common settings and tools to make managing the system
date and time easy.
--
Mike Easter
bilsch01
2020-10-25 19:28:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Easter
Post by bilsch01
My pc dual boots Ubuntu 20.04 and Windows 10. The windows clock has a
setting that says 'set time automatically'. It seems to set the
windows clock to the value of the 'system time' in the BIOS.
Ubuntu clock setting. Ubuntu apparently looks on the internet and
determines GMT and sets ubuntu clock based on that and the time zone
set in ubuntu settings. At the same time ubuntu also sets the BIOS
system time to the value of GMT it determined from the internet.
Arch wiki disagrees w/ that assessment; if we are talking about an
install of Ubuntu, ie dual boot.
In this post I am always talking about installed Ubuntu not live Ubuntu
Post by Mike Easter
Booting live Ub is another matter about this clock business.
Post by bilsch01
If I boot ubuntu and then boot windows the windows clock displays
GMT. So I have to set the windows clock.
From what you've said, I can't tell if 'boot Ubuntu' means live or
means dual boot install.
In this post I am always talking about installed Ubuntu not live Ubuntu
Post by Mike Easter
Post by bilsch01
QUESTION: is there any way to get windows to actually set the time
automatically, like implied by the setting that says: 'set time
automatically' ? Or can it only set the windows clock to the BIOS time?
'Normal' default Win wants the hardware clock to be localtime.
Post by bilsch01
QUESTION: Is there any way to prevent ubuntu from setting the BIOS
system time?
Do you mean installed or live?
In this post I am always talking about installed Ubuntu not live Ubuntu
Post by Mike Easter
You could of course have used a search engine instead of asking here...
<https://www.howtogeek.com/323390/how-to-fix-windows-and-linux-showing-different-times-when-dual-booting/>
That is a good article, particularly in how concisely he outlines the
problems and chooses a solution.  I also agree w/ the choice of making a
'windows decision' of hardware clock to local time rather than a linux
decision of hardware clock to UTC.
My critique would be that he chose only a systemd-related command
solution rather than a graphical one (or a non-systemd one).  The
advantage of course is that it simplifies the answer, because graphical
solutions are going to depend upon the DE, but the disadvantage is that
it doesn't address the non-systemd popular distro/s such as MX (and
anti-X) which have excellent graphical solutions to this issue.
Since the question was posed as an Ubuntu issue, we might also seek a
graphical Ub solution besides the systemd timedatectl commands of the
article.  I booted a live Ub 20.04.1 to see if I could find a Gnome
graphical answer.  It turns out that Gnome doesn't provide adequate
access graphically to manage this issue, so in the case of Gnome, the
timedatectl or hwclock command strategies are all that is available in
the default.
The Arch wiki alleges that Ubuntu 'automatically' favors the Win
solution "Ubuntu and its derivatives have the hardware clock set to be
interpreted as in "localtime" if Windows was detected on any disk during
Ubuntu installation. This is apparently done deliberately to allow new
Linux users to try out Ubuntu on their Windows computers without editing
the registry."
That answer isn't very good/accurate if 'try out Ubuntu' means booting a
live Ub.  If I boot a live Ubuntu, naturally the tz isn't set and the
hardware clock is UTC.
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/System_time
Mike Easter
2020-10-26 15:33:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by bilsch01
Post by Mike Easter
Post by bilsch01
My pc dual boots Ubuntu 20.04 and Windows 10. The windows clock has a
setting that says 'set time automatically'. It seems to set the
windows clock to the value of the 'system time' in the BIOS.
Ubuntu clock setting. Ubuntu apparently looks on the internet and
determines GMT and sets ubuntu clock based on that and the time zone
set in ubuntu settings. At the same time ubuntu also sets the BIOS
system time to the value of GMT it determined from the internet.
Arch wiki disagrees w/ that assessment; if we are talking about an
install of Ubuntu, ie dual boot.
In this post I am always talking about installed Ubuntu not live Ubuntu
Post by Mike Easter
The Arch wiki alleges that Ubuntu 'automatically' favors the Win
solution "Ubuntu and its derivatives have the hardware clock set to be
interpreted as in "localtime" if Windows was detected on any disk
during Ubuntu installation. This is apparently done deliberately to
allow new Linux users to try out Ubuntu on their Windows computers
without editing the registry."
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/System_time
I've been looking for some support for the info in the Arch wiki, which
is usually pretty reliable.

The 'last edited' note on the page says 2020 Sep, so it isn't supposed
to be some old info.

Since I don't have a dual boot Ubuntu-Windows install, I can't check it
for myself.

If I'm understanding the Arch content correctly, it would seem to be
saying that Ubuntu is *designed* to go/behave contrary to 'standard' or
typical linux practice on an Ub /install/ on/with an existing Win
install. It sounds as if the Ubuntu would 'automatically' on its on
during installation use the necessary commands for the hwclock or
timedatectl to cause the hardware clock to hold the local time instead
of traditional UTC.

Or, perhaps that might be some kind of option presented to the user
during he install?

But bilsch01 (and many others discussants) are always saying that they
are encountering the 'usual' problem w/ dual boot win/linux time
settings with Ubuntu -- so that means that the info in the Arch wiki is
completely wrong in that regard.
--
Mike Easter
bilsch01
2020-10-25 20:36:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by bilsch01
My pc dual boots Ubuntu 20.04 and Windows 10. The windows clock has a
setting that says 'set time automatically'. It seems to set the
windows clock to the value of the 'system time' in the BIOS.
Ubuntu clock setting. Ubuntu apparently looks on the internet and
determines GMT and sets ubuntu clock based on that and the time zone
set in ubuntu settings. At the same time ubuntu also sets the BIOS
system time to the value of GMT it determined from the internet.
If I boot ubuntu and then boot windows the windows clock displays
GMT. So I have to set the windows clock.
QUESTION: is there any way to get windows to actually set the time
automatically, like implied by the setting that says: 'set time
automatically' ? Or can it only set the windows clock to the BIOS time?
QUESTION: Is there any way to prevent ubuntu from setting the BIOS
system time?
You could of course have used a search engine instead of asking here...
<https://www.howtogeek.com/323390/how-to-fix-windows-and-linux-showing-different-times-when-dual-booting/>
Thanks for the link. I made the change using the timedatectl command.
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