Neon 20200810

[Mike Easter]

Now that Ub has released its first point update for 20.04, KDE Neon
follows w/ its Neon on that release.

Neon continues to squeak in under 400 meg live to the desktop at 396.
Goodjob. This is less than medium weight DEs such as XFCE and some
LXQt. If one wants a lighter DE than KDE, they need to use such as a
combination WM such as OpenBox + LXDE elements.

Its kernel is 5.4.0, its KDE 5.19.4, its ub 20.04.1

Its default apps are similar to some distro's 'mini' v. as it doesn't
include such bulk as LibreOffice or even a mail/news agent.

It does have the extensive KDE Plasma system settings which also has
context Help accessible on all of the numerous sections as well as a
Help icon in the app menu which leads to the extensive KDE help center
doc which is displayed from local file/s w/ local khelpcenter app.

One can spend some useful time getting 'lost' in the depths of KDE docs.
And settings.

If someone is new to KDE, the newest Neon is a good place to find out
how extensive the settings and documentation are.

[Mike Easter]

Post by Mike Easter
One can spend some useful time getting 'lost' in the depths of KDE docs.

This is an example of a page I found in Neon's kde help. I looked
around to see if I could find it online. At the link are the graphical
illustrations of some items in the menu pasted below the link.


https://docs.kde.org/trunk5/en/applications/fundamentals/ui.html#visualdict-screens
Chapter 3. Finding Your Way Around

Post by Mike Easter
Table of Contents
A Visual Dictionary
The Big Picture
The Widgets
Common Menus
The File Menu
The Edit Menu
The View Menu
The Tools Menu
The Settings Menu
The Help Menu
Thanks and Acknowledgments
Common Keyboard Shortcuts
Working with Windows
Working with Activities and Virtual Desktops
Working with the Desktop
Getting Help
Working with Documents
Working with Files
Changing Volume and Brightness
Leaving Your Computer
Modifying Shortcuts

[Mike Easter]

Post by Mike Easter
Neon continues to squeak in under 400 meg live to the desktop at 396.

Now there's a KDE MX. It has quite different goals than Neon.

The KDE v of MX is 34% 'heavier' than Neon (live to the desktop) and 24%
heavier than the XFCE MX. (MX kde 532, Neon 396, MX XFCE 428). I
believe that is because Neon 'aspires' to be a lean kde Ub .iso, while
it appears that MX kde goals were to implement quite a lot of the KDE Qt
apps as well as putting the numerous MX tools into kde.

While I'm a big fan of Neon's efforts to make their .iso boot lighter, I
also sometimes like to see more apps installed by default that I haven't
seen or that I would like to see working in another distro. As an
example, MX even included the kppp dialup tool; that sorta falls into
the kitchen sink category. However, it isn't in very good working order.

[Mike Easter]

Post by Mike Easter
The KDE v of MX is 34% 'heavier' than Neon (live to the desktop) and 24%
heavier than the XFCE MX.  (MX kde 532, Neon 396, MX XFCE 428).  I
believe that is because Neon 'aspires' to be a lean kde Ub .iso, while
it appears that MX kde goals were to implement quite a lot of the KDE Qt
apps as well as putting the numerous MX tools into kde.

Maybe I should move this thread to aol, as it is drifting away from Ub.

Another KDE which is based on Deb is Debian's live non-free distro.
Like MX's is it about the same weight live to the desktop. The other
weight is the size of the .iso; Neon 1.6, MX KDE 2.0, Deb 3.0G; but
there is a great deal of difference in how MX decided to handle serving
up KDE apps compared to how the Deb kde dev/s did it.

MX KDE has a much better 'lineup' of KDE apps than the Deb KDE; perhaps
that is because of the old MEPIS heritage; as MEPIS was once flagship
KDE v. Now I'm able to look at Neon, Deb KDE, MX KDE, PCLOS KDE,
Manjaro KDE, SolydK, & Kub. 3 of those are based on a Deb, 3 on Ub, 1
Arch and 1 independent. So far, I'm liking the assortment of KDE apps
best on MX; however, the MX default to withhold activating systemd may
work to its 'disadvantage' in terms of conveniences. It is possible
that I might decide to run MX's KDE w/ the systemd option on boot.

[Bobbie Sellers]

Post by Mike Easter
Neon continues to squeak in under 400 meg live to the desktop at 396.

Now there's a KDE MX.  It has quite different goals than Neon.
The KDE v of MX is 34% 'heavier' than Neon (live to the desktop) and 24%
heavier than the XFCE MX.  (MX kde 532, Neon 396, MX XFCE 428).  I
believe that is because Neon 'aspires' to be a lean kde Ub .iso, while
it appears that MX kde goals were to implement quite a lot of the KDE Qt
apps as well as putting the numerous MX tools into kde.
While I'm a big fan of Neon's efforts to make their .iso boot lighter, I
also sometimes like to see more apps installed by default that I haven't
seen or that I would like to see working in another distro.  As an
example, MX even included the kppp dialup tool; that sorta falls into
the kitchen sink category.  However, it isn't in very good working order.

I have it running in Virtual Box right now and it has
an older version of LibreOffice to help with bulking up the distro.
It works very well but I have problems with the way the
live distro is set up.. That may be because I am too eager to
get it running and neglected the documentation.

Once I got it installed to a Virtual Disk it became much
easier to use. Did updates and played Angband briefly.

Maybe we need a alt.desktop.management.kde ?? ;^)

bliss

[Mike Easter]

Post by Mike Easter
The KDE v of MX is 34% 'heavier' than Neon (live to the desktop) and
24% heavier than the XFCE MX.  (MX kde 532, Neon 396, MX XFCE 428).

    I have it running in Virtual Box right now and it has
an older version of LibreOffice to help with bulking up the distro.
    It works very well but I have problems with the way the
live distro is set up..  That may be because I am too eager to
get it running and neglected the documentation.
    Once I got it installed to a Virtual Disk it became much
easier to use.  Did updates and played Angband briefly.
    Maybe we need a alt.desktop.management.kde  ?? ;^)

I recall you are a PCLOS KDE.

In terms of desktop management, it shows its heritage w/ the PCLOS
Control Center, which copyright stamps go back to Mandriva and Mageia.
Naturally it also has the extensive KDE system settings.

I know you think my notation of megs ram live to the desktop is silly,
but I'll mention anyway that pclos is not bad at 474. I booted the
darkstar v. which is a mini .iso and weighs 1.3G. PCLOS releases 3 KDEs
incl mega 3.8 & std 2.2 G.

PCLOS is also non-systemd and its repo system is independently developed
using rpm packages and apt and synaptic as package managers. Altho' it
has had lots of development since those days, Mandriva came from
Mandrake which had its origins in RedHat + KDE.

In 1997 I had a need of a Linux distribution which would be easy to install and very easy to use. Red Hat was quite easy to install, but not easy to use. So I put KDE in Red Hat, added a few things for simplifying the users life and I released. This wouldn't have been possible in the proprietary software world! Since that, Mandrake has evolved on its own way and it's good that we can invent many new concepts.

Bill Reynolds (Texstar) was the package manager and now head honcho at
PCLOS which forked back in 2003. The wp article charts the evolution.

It is also a rolling release. Sometime back DW did a multi-issue review
of several rollers in terms of their stability, which is usually
considered to be one of the liabilities of rollers. I'm having a little
trouble finding that article.

[Mike Easter]

Sometime back DW did a multi-issue review of several rollers in terms of
their stability, which is usually considered to be one of the
liabilities of rollers.  I'm having a little trouble finding that article.

Ha! Changed my search strategy and found it...

https://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20141110#rolling
Rolling-release testing: Week five (2014 Nov)


Incidentally, that same issue of DW featured a Jesse Smith review of

In recent years I think it has been too easy to think of the Mandriva-based projects as "also ran" distributions. The financial troubles Mandriva faced and the user friendly efforts of projects like Ubuntu and Mint have conspired to push Mandriva out of the spotlight.

At the time JS did his testing of 5 rollers over 5 weeks, I found it a
worthwhile treatise of the pros & cons of that distro release strategy.

At the time of that article, Mint was at v. 17 and my preference was the
XFCE v. There was still a Mint KDE at that KDE4 time, also early
Cinnamon & Mate.

[Mike Easter]

Post by Mike Easter
PCLOS is also non-systemd and its repo system is independently developed
using rpm packages and apt and synaptic as package managers.
It is also a rolling release.

I was looking for a recent review of PCLOS by such as Jesse Smith who I
think is the best overall reviewer or even Dedoimedo whose tastes and
gripes differ from my own. Instead I found one by John Knight whose
gripes I didn't agree, but with whose kudos I DID agree.

As usual even w/ reviewers or commentators whose views I disagree, I
picked up something about the distro's features I wasn't current on,
namely the PCLOS policy or negative view about sudo, which is expressed
in its wiki* and an even more extensive entry* in its forum. The
detailed forum msg uses the acronym ITMOTB -- in the manner of the
'buntus -- about its default sudo handling.

In a sense, the pclos negativity about sudo reminds me of conventional
linux negativity toward the Puppy Linux default mode of running in
root/admin mode, with alternate modes available as an option. From a
default security perspective, one might line up PCLOS > 'Buntu > Puppy.


http://pclinuxoshelp.com/index.php/Frequently_Asked_Questions#Why_can.27t_I_use_sudo_command.3F
Why can't I use sudo command?

https://www.pclinuxos.com/forum/index.php/topic,90479.0.html%7C SUDO -
Use and Abuse.

[Mike Easter]

Instead I found one by John Knight whose gripes I didn't agree, but with
whose kudos I DID agree.

If one wants to get a 'flavor' of John Knight opinion, he also wrote an
article called '9 of The Best Linux Distros in 2020' in which he picked
a single distro in each of 9 different categories, customization,
simplicity, ease of use, privacy, forensics, runs from ram, old
computers & netbooks, rolling release, & for the experienced.

Unfortunately, there were only 13 comments on the article, which were
worth reading as much as the article itself, which is frequently the
case. I wish there had been more of those.


https://www.maketecheasier.com/best-linux-distros/
https://www.maketecheasier.com/pclinuxos-kde-review/ PCLinuxOS KDE
2020.05 Review: Not for the Novice

[Bobbie Sellers]

Post by Mike Easter

Instead I found one by John Knight whose gripes I didn't agree, but
with whose kudos I DID agree.

If one wants to get a 'flavor' of John Knight opinion, he also wrote an
article called '9 of The Best Linux Distros in 2020' in which he picked
a single distro in each of 9 different categories, customization,
simplicity, ease of use, privacy, forensics, runs from ram, old
computers & netbooks, rolling release, & for the experienced.
Unfortunately, there were only 13 comments on the article, which were
worth reading as much as the article itself, which is frequently the
case.  I wish there had been more of those.
https://www.maketecheasier.com/best-linux-distros/
https://www.maketecheasier.com/pclinuxos-kde-review/  PCLinuxOS KDE
2020.05 Review: Not for the Novice

I agree that PCLinux is not for the novice but for the computer
professional or hobbyist who likes to learn about the internals of the
system and the hardware it runs on. I never came over from Windows
but left the Amiga sorrowfully behind as the majority shareholder
stabbed the users and the rest of the shareholders in the back.

I used to help people who used Windows which was easy since
before the Amiga I experimented with GEOS and CPM on the Commodore
128/64 machine. I am merely a hobbyist and one of my hobbies is
keeping my old computers, 3 Dell Latitudes, operating and all have
the fabulous, not for the willingly ignorant, PCLinusOS 64.

I used to download Neon to see what they had but they
were not as up-to-date as PCLinux

I don't know how long it will take to have it moderated
but I added a long comment to the review you reference above.

By the way I run MX-Linux in VirtualBox just to play
Angband. Now the little red button on my taskbar is shinning
red so I have to some updates.

bliss

[Mike Easter]

Post by Bobbie Sellers
I used to download Neon to see what they had but they
were not as up-to-date as PCLinux

Well...

... as a general rule, Neon is running a LTS Ub which isn't 'bleeding
edge'. Then, when the 'newest' Ub LTS is released, Neon doesn't 'jump
on' it until some time /after/ the first .1 point release.

However, Neon is VERY uptodate on its KDE, as that is what it is all about.

OTOH, PCLOS style is rolling; and its 'rolling style' compared to other
rollers is somewhat 'fresh' and somewhat conservative. In JS review of
5 rollers, he liked PCLOS balance in that regard, as it helps stability
compared to a roller which tries too hard to be fresh.

I don't know whether by uptodate you are referring to linux kernel or
kde or the available apps. Ubuntu/Neon has to have a more extensive
repo than PCLOS, but the repo is going to be based on an 'older' LTS Ub
usually but not currently; Neon has to have a fresher KDE than PCLOS, so
I think we have to have a def of uptodate for the discussion.

[Bobbie Sellers]

Post by Mike Easter

Post by Bobbie Sellers
I used to download Neon to see what they had but they
were not as up-to-date as PCLinux

Well...
.... as a general rule, Neon is running a LTS Ub which isn't 'bleeding
edge'.  Then, when the 'newest' Ub LTS is released, Neon doesn't 'jump
on' it until some time /after/ the first .1 point release.
However, Neon is VERY uptodate on its KDE, as that is what it is all about.

And PCLinuxOS is not waiting on any release but taking the KDE updates
as they come, Taking kernels as they are released, not waiting until
some canonical authority is ready to distribute them as full releases.

Post by Mike Easter
OTOH, PCLOS style is rolling; and its 'rolling style' compared to other
rollers is somewhat 'fresh' and somewhat conservative.  In JS review of
5 rollers, he liked PCLOS balance in that regard, as it helps stability
compared to a roller which tries too hard to be fresh.
I don't know whether by uptodate you are referring to linux kernel or
kde or the available apps.  Ubuntu/Neon has to have a more extensive
repo than PCLOS, but the repo is going to be based on an 'older' LTS Ub
usually but not currently; Neon has to have a fresher KDE than PCLOS, so
I think we have to have a def of uptodate for the discussion.

I say PCLinuxOS, kernel, or desktop manager is ahead
of any Ubuntu-based release. But I am a committed user of this
distro but now I will go and play some Angband if my character
can be revived or not.

bliss

[Mike Easter]

Post by Bobbie Sellers

Post by Mike Easter

Post by Bobbie Sellers
I used to download Neon to see what they had but they
were not as up-to-date as PCLinux

Well...
.... as a general rule, Neon is running a LTS Ub which isn't 'bleeding
edge'.  Then, when the 'newest' Ub LTS is released, Neon doesn't 'jump
on' it until some time /after/ the first .1 point release.
However, Neon is VERY uptodate on its KDE, as that is what it is all about.

And PCLinuxOS is not waiting on any release but taking the KDE updates
as they come,  Taking kernels as they are released, not waiting until
some canonical authority is ready to distribute them as full releases.

Post by Mike Easter
OTOH, PCLOS style is rolling; and its 'rolling style' compared to
other rollers is somewhat 'fresh' and somewhat conservative.  In JS
review of 5 rollers, he liked PCLOS balance in that regard, as it
helps stability compared to a roller which tries too hard to be fresh.
I don't know whether by uptodate you are referring to linux kernel or
kde or the available apps.  Ubuntu/Neon has to have a more extensive
repo than PCLOS, but the repo is going to be based on an 'older' LTS
Ub usually but not currently; Neon has to have a fresher KDE than
PCLOS, so I think we have to have a def of uptodate for the discussion.

    I say PCLinuxOS, kernel, or desktop manager is ahead
of any Ubuntu-based release.  But I am a committed user of this
distro but now I will go and play some Angband if my character
can be revived or not.

Over time, I would say 'usually' PCLOS as a rolling release, is going to
be 'fresher' than Neon because of Neon's policy to be based on the
'current' LTS xx.04.1.

However, at the /present/ Neon is based on Ub 20.04.1, released not so
long ago and its KDE is the same as PCLOS but on an earlier kernel.

Present PCLOS:
Kernel: 5.7.14-pclos1 x86_64 bits: 64
  Desktop: KDE Plasma 5.19.4 Distro: PCLinuxOS 2020

Present Neon:
Kernel: 5.4.0-42-generic x86_64 bits: 64
  Desktop: KDE Plasma 5.19.4 Distro: KDE neon 20.04 5.19

That advantage of rolling releases was emphasized by JS when he began
his review of the 5 distro/s incl pclos. His main target was the
question of breakage, which didn't seem to be a problem across the
studied distro/s, but there was some trouble w/ opensuse and pc-bsd.

Post by Bobbie Sellers
I am of the opinion the best way to find out is to experiment. With that in mind I have begun a simple trial in which I will run several rolling release distributions in parallel and see which (if any) of the operating systems break and how long each operating system can be upgraded while still allowing the user to accomplish common tasks.

The following week he went into greater detail about his experiment, and

Post by Bobbie Sellers
PCLinuxOS was another easy choice. The distribution maintains a rolling-release style, but while Arch is very cutting edge, PCLinuxOS has a conservative style to it. The distribution has a reputation for being stable for long periods of time and I felt it to be an obvious addition to the list.

He went into much detail that week and expressed concern about pclos not
providing an avenue for a snapshot in case it broke.

If one follows his reports week to week (issues 579-584) comparing pclos
to the other rollers he chose, one can see that pclos is not the most
conservative nor the 'freshest' in terms of its updates.

Naturally a semi-fixed 'ub isn't in there to compare; but I would
certainly accept the opinion that it would NOT be as fresh as pclos; and
further than Neon wouldn't even be as fresh as a current 'ub; except for
the KDE.

And, if one's goal were to be on the very bleeding edge of KDE, instead
of the user ed. of neon, they would choose its developer ed.

[Bobbie Sellers]

Post by Mike Easter

Post by Bobbie Sellers

Post by Mike Easter

Post by Bobbie Sellers
I used to download Neon to see what they had but they
were not as up-to-date as PCLinux

Well...
.... as a general rule, Neon is running a LTS Ub which isn't
'bleeding edge'.  Then, when the 'newest' Ub LTS is released, Neon
doesn't 'jump on' it until some time /after/ the first .1 point release.
However, Neon is VERY uptodate on its KDE, as that is what it is all about.

And PCLinuxOS is not waiting on any release but taking the KDE updates
as they come,  Taking kernels as they are released, not waiting until
some canonical authority is ready to distribute them as full releases.

Post by Mike Easter
OTOH, PCLOS style is rolling; and its 'rolling style' compared to
other rollers is somewhat 'fresh' and somewhat conservative.  In JS
review of 5 rollers, he liked PCLOS balance in that regard, as it
helps stability compared to a roller which tries too hard to be fresh.
I don't know whether by uptodate you are referring to linux kernel or
kde or the available apps.  Ubuntu/Neon has to have a more extensive
repo than PCLOS, but the repo is going to be based on an 'older' LTS
Ub usually but not currently; Neon has to have a fresher KDE than
PCLOS, so I think we have to have a def of uptodate for the discussion.

     I say PCLinuxOS, kernel, or desktop manager is ahead
of any Ubuntu-based release.  But I am a committed user of this
distro but now I will go and play some Angband if my character
can be revived or not.

Over time, I would say 'usually' PCLOS as a rolling release, is going to
be 'fresher' than Neon because of Neon's policy to be based on the
'current' LTS xx.04.1.
However, at the /present/ Neon is based on Ub 20.04.1, released not so
long ago and its KDE is the same as PCLOS but on an earlier kernel.
Kernel: 5.7.14-pclos1 x86_64 bits: 64
  Desktop: KDE Plasma 5.19.4 Distro: PCLinuxOS 2020
Kernel: 5.4.0-42-generic x86_64 bits: 64
  Desktop: KDE Plasma 5.19.4 Distro: KDE neon 20.04 5.19
That advantage of rolling releases was emphasized by JS when he began
his review of the 5 distro/s incl pclos.  His main target was the
question of breakage, which didn't seem to be a problem across the
studied distro/s, but there was some trouble w/ opensuse and pc-bsd.

Post by Bobbie Sellers
 I am of the opinion the best way to find out is to experiment. With
that in mind I have begun a simple trial in which I will run several
rolling release distributions in parallel and see which (if any) of
the operating systems break and how long each operating system can be
upgraded while still allowing the user to accomplish common tasks.

The following week he went into greater detail about his experiment, and

Post by Bobbie Sellers
 PCLinuxOS was another easy choice. The distribution maintains a
rolling-release style, but while Arch is very cutting edge, PCLinuxOS
has a conservative style to it. The distribution has a reputation for
being stable for long periods of time and I felt it to be an obvious
addition to the list.

He went into much detail that week and expressed concern about pclos not
providing an avenue for a snapshot in case it broke.

Well maybe someone was paying attention because we have
multiple facilities for backups and for creation of new iso from
the system at hand. That means that in case of failure we can
get right back to the system we had before failure. I use Timeshift
putting backups on an external USB connected drive.

Post by Mike Easter
If one follows his reports week to week (issues 579-584) comparing pclos
to the other rollers he chose, one can see that pclos is not the most
conservative nor the 'freshest' in terms of its updates.
Naturally a semi-fixed 'ub isn't in there to compare; but I would
certainly accept the opinion that it would NOT be as fresh as pclos; and
further than Neon wouldn't even be as fresh as a current 'ub; except for
the KDE.
And, if one's goal were to be on the very bleeding edge of KDE, instead
of the user ed. of neon, they would choose its developer ed.
The are not the only ones to take the bleeding edge of KDE Plasma 5.

We see it here too and sometimes it is a pain,

bliss

[Mike Easter]

Post by Mike Easter
That advantage of rolling releases was emphasized by JS when he began
his review of the 5 distro/s incl pclos.  His main target was the
question of breakage, which didn't seem to be a problem across the
studied distro/s, but there was some trouble w/ opensuse and pc-bsd.

JS's biggest concern was that of breakage of severity that it didn't
boot. Some distro/s have such as TimeShift to mitigate that. When I
was looking around Neon & PCLOS about that, Neon could access an Ub .ppa
for timeshift. In the PCLOS forums the 'mylive/s' were mentioned in
that context. My live pclos has myliveusb by default. I don't know
much about mylivegtk. Ohers mentioned using clonezilla.

I gather than myliveusb is a script to create remaster .iso.

Aha. I refreshed my pclos repo and found that it indeed had a timeshift
available as well as mylivegtk.

[Dirk T. Verbeek]

Post by Mike Easter
JS's biggest concern was that of breakage of severity that it didn't
boot.  Some distro/s have such as TimeShift to mitigate that.  When I
was looking around Neon & PCLOS about that, Neon could access an Ub .ppa
for timeshift.  In the PCLOS forums the 'mylive/s' were mentioned in
that context.  My live pclos has myliveusb by default.  I don't know
much about mylivegtk.  Ohers mentioned using clonezilla.
I gather than myliveusb is a script to create remaster .iso.
Aha.  I refreshed my pclos repo and found that it indeed had a timeshift
available as well as mylivegtk.

Using BTRFS also gives you an excellent and fast way to return to a
previous state.

[Mike Easter]

Post by Bobbie Sellers

Post by Mike Easter
https://www.maketecheasier.com/pclinuxos-kde-review/  PCLinuxOS KDE
2020.05 Review: Not for the Novice

I agree that PCLinux is not for the novice but for the computer
professional or hobbyist who likes to learn about the internals of the
system and the hardware it runs on.

Well...

... I didn't really agree w/ some of JK's bases for saying 'not for the
novice'. He complained that the instructions for writing to USB were
linux dd command. He didn't really look very far or he would have found
Win instructions for using Etcher in the wiki; and 3 different gui linux
methods incl one installed by default on my pclos ddcopy.

He didn't like installer's partitioner. I don't use distro installer's
partitioner because I prefer to use GpartEd for that before running the
installer. The default live KDE offers gparted.

He didn't really like the default dark desktop theme. What can I say
when someone's aesthetics differs from another's.

Altho' he compared the pclos control center with Yast, he sounded
neutral instead of positive about that. He seemed negative about
Synaptic being the graphical package manager; whereas personally I HATE
the Ub Software Center which he preferred.

I don't have any disagreement w/ his observations on pclos menu navigation.

Post by Bobbie Sellers
Unlike Ubuntu derivatives, PCLinuxOS doesn’t use sudo, preferring the old-school root method.

For a point of view about pclos being novice friendly, here's another:

https://technophobeconfessions.wordpress.com/2017/07/03/pclinuxos-mini-xfce-edition/
Confessions of a Technophobe - I have been writing about why I jumped
from Ubuntu-derived Linux Lite to PCLinuxOS


That writer was very distressed by systemd, so he wanted a
novice-friendly non-systemd distro and found PCLOS to fit that niche.

I think JK's 'problem' about 'non-novice' was based on his 'buntu bias.

[Bobbie Sellers]

Post by Mike Easter

Post by Bobbie Sellers

Post by Mike Easter
https://www.maketecheasier.com/pclinuxos-kde-review/  PCLinuxOS KDE
2020.05 Review: Not for the Novice

I agree that PCLinux is not for the novice but for the computer
professional or hobbyist who likes to learn about the internals of the
system and the hardware it runs on.

Well...
.... I didn't really agree w/ some of JK's bases for saying 'not for the
novice'.  He complained that the instructions for writing to USB were
linux dd command.  He didn't really look very far or he would have found
Win instructions for using Etcher in the wiki; and 3 different gui linux
methods incl one installed by default on my pclos ddcopy.

Fewer problems with the ddcopy utility than with most other
USB tools.

Post by Mike Easter
He didn't like installer's partitioner.  I don't use distro installer's
partitioner because I prefer to use GpartEd for that before running the
installer.  The default live KDE offers gparted.

And I use it too, except when doing a dual-boot I may use
PartEd Magic, which is a bit faster and saves me from having to
go into Windows to reduce the C: volume size.

Post by Mike Easter
He didn't really like the default dark desktop theme.  What can I say
when someone's aesthetics differs from another's.

But isn't that the point of using and mean actually using
KDE Plasma is that there are quite a group of various light, dark and
various shades to use.

Post by Mike Easter
Altho' he compared the pclos control center with Yast, he sounded
neutral instead of positive about that.  He seemed negative about
Synaptic being the graphical package manager; whereas personally I HATE
the Ub Software Center which he preferred.

I despise the Software Center and try to install Synaptic on
the 'buntu I happen to use for some reason or another. I also hate
the distributions that refer to repositories as Software Stores.
The Control Center by the way will let you use your user password
to do a variety of "root" tasks. I did that for a few years but
got back to using root password for those lately.

Post by Mike Easter
I don't have any disagreement w/ his observations on pclos menu navigation.

Well with Plasma 5 you can change the menu in various ways right
or down to the menu Icon. You can create the same sort of menu seen in
other distributions whether launcher or icons.

Post by Mike Easter

Post by Bobbie Sellers
Unlike Ubuntu derivatives, PCLinuxOS doesn’t use sudo, preferring the
old-school root method.

"su -" is the best way to fly. Root accounts forever!

Post by Mike Easter
https://technophobeconfessions.wordpress.com/2017/07/03/pclinuxos-mini-xfce-edition/
 Confessions of a Technophobe - I have been writing about why I jumped
from Ubuntu-derived Linux Lite to PCLinuxOS
That writer was very distressed by systemd, so he wanted a
novice-friendly non-systemd distro and found PCLOS to fit that niche.

That writer was no longer a novice since he knew about Poettering's
Folly. Mageia is a very good distribution but since
it is not a rolling release and it uses PF aka systemd that is two
strikes against it.

Post by Mike Easter
I think JK's 'problem' about 'non-novice' was based on his 'buntu bias.

Very likely... The folks in SF-LUG bought the Canonical Koolaid
and put it on a lot of machines where the users fail to do updates both
to the regular basis and when the latest LTS version is available.
We see these on Usenet quite often who are running a version of Ubuntu
that is about 6 to 8 years old and we also see users on PCLinux
Forum with similar problems.

bliss

[Mike Easter]

Post by Mike Easter
In a sense, the pclos negativity about sudo reminds me of conventional
linux negativity toward the Puppy Linux default mode of running in
root/admin mode, with alternate modes available as an option.  From a
default security perspective, one might line up PCLOS > 'Buntu > Puppy.

Personally, I guess my 'attitude' about the defaults of Puppy or the
'buntu/s is 'looser' than the attitude I've seen at PCLOS. They are
adamantly against the style of the default 'buntu re sudo and surely
that of Puppy default admin.

My environment is totally single user; no one else has 'conventional'
access to my hardware, so maybe that gives rise to my looser attitudes
than someone who is in an environment which is different from that.

I will confess that 'OnceUponATime' I did run old Win9x machines in a
'default' admin mode, but I don't do that anymore even tho' I don't run
any WinX710 very much at all any more.

I've been looking for a nice debate about 'buntu sudo default; so far
this old one has been more interesting:

https://askubuntu.com/questions/545768/whats-wrong-with-using-sudo
What's wrong with using sudo?

[Bobbie Sellers]

Post by Mike Easter
Neon continues to squeak in under 400 meg live to the desktop at 396.

Now there's a KDE MX.  It has quite different goals than Neon.
The KDE v of MX is 34% 'heavier' than Neon (live to the desktop) and 24%
heavier than the XFCE MX.  (MX kde 532, Neon 396, MX XFCE 428).  I
believe that is because Neon 'aspires' to be a lean kde Ub .iso, while
it appears that MX kde goals were to implement quite a lot of the KDE Qt
apps as well as putting the numerous MX tools into kde.
While I'm a big fan of Neon's efforts to make their .iso boot lighter, I
also sometimes like to see more apps installed by default that I haven't
seen or that I would like to see working in another distro.  As an
example, MX even included the kppp dialup tool; that sorta falls into
the kitchen sink category.  However, it isn't in very good working order.

I have it running in Virtual Box right now and it has
an older version of LibreOffice to help with bulking up the distro.
It works very well but I have problems with the way the
live distro is set up.. That may be because I am too eager to
get it running and neglected the documentation.

Once I got it installed to a Virtual Disk it became much
easier to use. Did updates and played Angband briefly.

Maybe we need a alt.desktop.management.kde ?? ;^)

bliss

[Mike Easter]

Post by Mike Easter
Neon continues to squeak in under 400 meg live to the desktop at 396.

Another KDE-ish avenue to explore is the Trinity DE, 'based' in a sense
on KDE 3.5. In order for Timothy Pearson to do that, he also had to
maintain a well-developed tool kit, which is based on the earlier Qt and
now called TQt. That seems like a lot of hammer and chisel work.

For a 'base' OS & repo/s, current Debian is used for Q4OS distro, but
the TDE is available for others to use all over the place, including
PCLOS. The Q4OS comes as TDE or current Plasma KDE and slim vs fat
versions of both.

There are also actually 2 tde pclos, one a mini and the other heavy w/
apps as community ed/s of pclos.