Discussion:
laptop making a whirring noise after downloading Ubuntu ISO file
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Adam
2021-03-19 06:03:58 UTC
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Laptop making whirring noise after downloading Ubuntu ISO file.

Thought the HDD might be the problem. Took out the HDD and cloned it. Quiet. No problem.

Blew compressed air to clean the fan. Not much dust.

Put everything back together. The whirring noise is still there.

What else can it be ?
CaseYin
2021-03-19 07:59:00 UTC
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Op 19-03-2021 om 07:03 schreef Adam:
>
> Laptop making whirring noise after downloading Ubuntu ISO file.
>
> Thought the HDD might be the problem.  Took out the HDD and cloned it.
> Quiet.  No problem.
>
> Blew compressed air to clean the fan.  Not much dust.
>
> Put everything back together.  The whirring noise is still there.
>
> What else can it be ?
>
REMOVE THE CD! :-)
Adam
2021-03-19 16:02:13 UTC
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Permalink
On 03/19/2021 12:59 AM, CaseYin wrote:
> Op 19-03-2021 om 07:03 schreef Adam:
>>
>> Laptop making whirring noise after downloading Ubuntu ISO file.
>>
>> Thought the HDD might be the problem. Took out the HDD and cloned it. Quiet. No problem.
>>
>> Blew compressed air to clean the fan. Not much dust.
>>
>> Put everything back together. The whirring noise is still there.
>>
>> What else can it be ?
>
> REMOVE THE CD! :-)

Thanks, but there's no info about removing/replacing optical drive in User’s Manual...

https://www.asus.com/us/supportonly/N550JX/HelpDesk_Manual

Found some YouTube videos...

How-to Asus N550 N550JV adding 2nd HDD / SSD using DVD / optical drive bay with HDD Caddy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2MRiHuGF_E&t=27s&ab_channel=CevinT.

but mine looks a little different. Please help.
Bobbie Sellers
2021-03-19 16:41:00 UTC
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Permalink
On 3/19/21 9:02 AM, Adam wrote:
> On 03/19/2021 12:59 AM, CaseYin wrote:
>> Op 19-03-2021 om 07:03 schreef Adam:
>>>
>>> Laptop making whirring noise after downloading Ubuntu ISO file.
>>>
>>> Thought the HDD might be the problem.  Took out the HDD and cloned
>>> it.  Quiet.  No problem.
>>>
>>> Blew compressed air to clean the fan.  Not much dust.
>>>
>>> Put everything back together.  The whirring noise is still there.
>>>
>>> What else can it be ?
>>
>> REMOVE THE CD! :-)
>
> Thanks, but there's no info about removing/replacing optical drive in
> User’s Manual...
>
> https://www.asus.com/us/supportonly/N550JX/HelpDesk_Manual
>
> Found some YouTube videos...
>
> How-to Asus N550 N550JV adding 2nd HDD / SSD using DVD / optical drive
> bay with HDD Caddy
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2MRiHuGF_E&t=27s&ab_channel=CevinT.
>
> but mine looks a little different.  Please help.

Look for the manuals for your machine not videos of what someone
is doing with a similar machine.

YouTube videos are good for simple problems.
CD drives are easy to remove generally. Usually held
by a single screw and friction.

bliss - “Nearly any fool can use a Linux computer. Many do.” After all
here I am...

--
bliss dash SF 4 ever at dslextreme dot com
Adam
2021-03-19 20:03:27 UTC
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Permalink
On 03/19/2021 09:41 AM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
> On 3/19/21 9:02 AM, Adam wrote:
>> On 03/19/2021 12:59 AM, CaseYin wrote:
>>> Op 19-03-2021 om 07:03 schreef Adam:
>>>>
>>>> Laptop making whirring noise after downloading Ubuntu ISO file.
>>>>
>>>> Thought the HDD might be the problem. Took out the HDD and cloned it. Quiet. No problem.
>>>>
>>>> Blew compressed air to clean the fan. Not much dust.
>>>>
>>>> Put everything back together. The whirring noise is still there.
>>>>
>>>> What else can it be ?
>>>
>>> REMOVE THE CD! :-)
>>
>> Thanks, but there's no info about removing/replacing optical drive in User’s Manual...
>>
>> https://www.asus.com/us/supportonly/N550JX/HelpDesk_Manual
>>
>> Found some YouTube videos...
>>
>> How-to Asus N550 N550JV adding 2nd HDD / SSD using DVD / optical drive bay with HDD Caddy
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2MRiHuGF_E&t=27s&ab_channel=CevinT.
>>
>> but mine looks a little different. Please help.
>
> Look for the manuals for your machine not videos of what someone
> is doing with a similar machine.
>

Again, no info in User's Manual about removing/replacing optical drive.
YouTube video was the next best thing (despite being off by a revision or two) I could find.

> YouTube videos are good for simple problems.
> CD drives are easy to remove generally. Usually held
> by a single screw and friction.
>

Got the optical drive out through the HDD bay after removing two screws from
the outside holding the optical drive in place. Saw an optical drive screw hole from
the HDD bay. Got leverage of the screw hole with a phillips screwdriver and pushed the optical drive out.

Here's a pic of the "old" optical drive...

https://i.postimg.cc/L8JNK1Cb/IMG-0079.jpg


> bliss - “Nearly any fool can use a Linux computer. Many do.” After all here I am...
>

Using basic Linux features is not too bad, advanced Linux configuration can get quite gnarly. :-)

I'm still at Level 2-ish. Highest Level 5 is for gurus (like Paul, et al). :-)
Paul
2021-03-19 18:02:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Adam wrote:
> On 03/19/2021 12:59 AM, CaseYin wrote:
>> Op 19-03-2021 om 07:03 schreef Adam:
>>>
>>> Laptop making whirring noise after downloading Ubuntu ISO file.
>>>
>>> Thought the HDD might be the problem. Took out the HDD and cloned
>>> it. Quiet. No problem.
>>>
>>> Blew compressed air to clean the fan. Not much dust.
>>>
>>> Put everything back together. The whirring noise is still there.
>>>
>>> What else can it be ?
>>
>> REMOVE THE CD! :-)
>
> Thanks, but there's no info about removing/replacing optical drive in
> User’s Manual...

You over-interpreted CaseYin's message.

The answer you got was to:

1) Press the eject button located on the optical drive tray.
2) The optical drive tray opens a fraction of an inch.
Laptop optical drives do not have full motor assist
and long-travel trays. Just the spring releases and
the tray must be manually moved open with your fingers.
3) Now, grab the exposed portion of the tray and open the
tray just a little bit, to check for a mini-CD or a
regular-sized piece of media.

Media placed in a laptop drive, usually has an interference-fit.
The media presses the hub and compresses it a bit.
To remove the media, requires the hub to "let go" of
the center hole. You have to ease the CD or DVD or mini-CD
off the hub.

Once the media is removed, close the tray again.

The tray motor does not rotate if no media is present.

If the tray motor does not rotate, there will be silence.

If the optical beam detects an obstruction in the way
that is interpreted as media, then the motor spins the
media so that the laser can go and find the groove.

The motors that rotate such things, tend to be three-phase.
Rather than media being rotated by stepper motors. Three
phase motors have low torque ripple, giving "smooth data bits".

Three phase motors, there's a motor controller chip, and
it makes three sine waves that are out of phase. The motor
controller can vary the frequency of the since waves, it
can vary the amplitude. This allows a motor controller to
accelerate or decelerate the media. Since optical media
does things like CAV (constant angular velocity) or CLV (constant
linear velocity), the equipment is full of tricks. By
varying the frequency, the media can spin screaming-fast
at 48X ("whoosh" noise), or movie-slow at 1X (barely audible).
This is why the noises that come out of there, can vary a lot.

But without media in there, it would be a defect for the
motor to start spinning. It would require a detection
defect, for the motor to rotate when no media is present.
The motor may "blip" a bit, at the instant the tray
closes, but it should not stay running.

CaseYin did not want you to do "surgery". That's not the request.

Simply open the tray and check for media! That was the answer.

Paul
Adam
2021-03-19 20:57:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 03/19/2021 11:02 AM, Paul wrote:
> Adam wrote:
>> On 03/19/2021 12:59 AM, CaseYin wrote:
>>> Op 19-03-2021 om 07:03 schreef Adam:
>>>>
>>>> Laptop making whirring noise after downloading Ubuntu ISO file.
>>>>
>>>> Thought the HDD might be the problem. Took out the HDD and cloned it. Quiet. No problem.
>>>>
>>>> Blew compressed air to clean the fan. Not much dust.
>>>>
>>>> Put everything back together. The whirring noise is still there.
>>>>
>>>> What else can it be ?
>>>
>>> REMOVE THE CD! :-)
>>
>> Thanks, but there's no info about removing/replacing optical drive in User’s Manual...
>
> You over-interpreted CaseYin's message.
>
> The answer you got was to:
>
> 1) Press the eject button located on the optical drive tray.
> 2) The optical drive tray opens a fraction of an inch.
> Laptop optical drives do not have full motor assist
> and long-travel trays. Just the spring releases and
> the tray must be manually moved open with your fingers.
> 3) Now, grab the exposed portion of the tray and open the
> tray just a little bit, to check for a mini-CD or a
> regular-sized piece of media.
>

Thanks, Guru Paul !!

Because the tray was already empty, I got his hint that
the problem may be optical drive-related. So, going one step further,
I removed the optical drive entirely.


> Media placed in a laptop drive, usually has an interference-fit.
> The media presses the hub and compresses it a bit.
> To remove the media, requires the hub to "let go" of
> the center hole. You have to ease the CD or DVD or mini-CD
> off the hub.
>
> Once the media is removed, close the tray again.
>
> The tray motor does not rotate if no media is present.
>
> If the tray motor does not rotate, there will be silence.
>
> If the optical beam detects an obstruction in the way
> that is interpreted as media, then the motor spins the
> media so that the laser can go and find the groove.
>
> The motors that rotate such things, tend to be three-phase.
> Rather than media being rotated by stepper motors. Three
> phase motors have low torque ripple, giving "smooth data bits".
>
> Three phase motors, there's a motor controller chip, and
> it makes three sine waves that are out of phase. The motor
> controller can vary the frequency of the sine waves, it
> can vary the amplitude. This allows a motor controller to
> accelerate or decelerate the media. Since optical media
> does things like CAV (constant angular velocity) or CLV (constant
> linear velocity), the equipment is full of tricks. By
> varying the frequency, the media can spin screaming-fast
> at 48X ("whoosh" noise), or movie-slow at 1X (barely audible).
> This is why the noises that come out of there, can vary a lot.
>
> But without media in there, it would be a defect for the
> motor to start spinning. It would require a detection
> defect, for the motor to rotate when no media is present.
> The motor may "blip" a bit, at the instant the tray
> closes, but it should not stay running.
>
> CaseYin did not want you to do "surgery". That's not the request.
>
> Simply open the tray and check for media! That was the answer.
>
> Paul


Anyways, got the optical drive out through the HDD bay after removing two screws from
the outside holding the optical drive in place. Saw an optical drive screw hole from the HDD bay.
Got leverage of the screw hole with a phillips screwdriver and slid the optical drive out.

Here's a pic of the "old" optical drive...

https://i.postimg.cc/L8JNK1Cb/IMG-0079.jpg

It's old so I'll replace it. How about an external USB Lite-On Optical Drives EBAU108-01 ?
Internal optical drives are harder to match. Maybe I'll disable the optical drive via BIOS and
stick the old optical drive back in to fill the hole.

After removing the optical drive, the laptop is still quite noisy.
What else can be the cause ?

I'm getting nervous and have been planning to move to a newer laptop.
Specs are different so simply inserting the HDD in the newer laptop didn't work.
Had graphics issues because video is different [ATI Mobility Radeon (old) vs Intel HD Graphics (newer)].
Is there a workaround ? Or, do I need a new install of Ubuntu ?
Paul
2021-03-20 02:44:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Adam wrote:

>
> Thanks, Guru Paul !!
>
> Because the tray was already empty, I got his hint that
> the problem may be optical drive-related. So, going one step further,
> I removed the optical drive entirely.
>
> Anyways, got the optical drive out through the HDD bay after removing
> two screws from
> the outside holding the optical drive in place. Saw an optical drive
> screw hole from the HDD bay.
> Got leverage of the screw hole with a phillips screwdriver and slid the
> optical drive out.
>
> Here's a pic of the "old" optical drive...
>
> https://i.postimg.cc/L8JNK1Cb/IMG-0079.jpg
>
> It's old so I'll replace it. How about an external USB Lite-On Optical
> Drives EBAU108-01 ?
> Internal optical drives are harder to match. Maybe I'll disable the
> optical drive via BIOS and
> stick the old optical drive back in to fill the hole.
>
> After removing the optical drive, the laptop is still quite noisy.
> What else can be the cause ?
>
> I'm getting nervous and have been planning to move to a newer laptop.
> Specs are different so simply inserting the HDD in the newer laptop
> didn't work.
> Had graphics issues because video is different [ATI Mobility Radeon
> (old) vs Intel HD Graphics (newer)].
> Is there a workaround ? Or, do I need a new install of Ubuntu ?
>

I don't see a price, but depending on whether this seller ships to
where you are, you might see a price.

https://www.amazon.com/Genuine-PANASONIC-UJ890-Optical-PIK-UJ890/dp/B083RXC1J2

There's no real reason to pull the drive if it's not the
noise source.

Maybe the machine has two cooling fans.

*******

If using non-proprietary video drivers (nouveau or similar),
the OS should probe at boot time and select the driver that
matches the current crop of hardware.

That's how my Linux Mint USB stick (the one I use all the time
for forensics), is able to boot on the various machines. It won't
boot on the first computer, because it doesn't have the memory for it.

When the OS is installed, it's still transportable. In fact, that's
how I got Linux running on one of the machines (which doesn't know
how to boot a DVD and the USB is only USB 1.1). I installed on a
more capable machine (32 bit version), then moved the hard drive
over to the machine in question and it booted.

So there is transportability.

*******

If you had a stethoscope, you could press that on the
surface and search for "peak sound" :-) Sound questions
are pretty tough to solve from a distance, even with
a sound sample.

They make array microphones, but I don't know if there
is the right kind of software to use with them. There
is a very expensive array microphone, that has "beam steering",
and allows extracting "tracks" from a live recording.
You can record a band, use the software, and extract
a "drum track", a "lead singer track" and so on, and
it's all done by beam forming of the signals,
as a step in post. Then if another sound engineer
wants to mix down the tracks, they can take the
artificially produced tracks and use them.

Without the beam steering, the recording would already be mixed
in the broad sense (each individual microphone, only
hears what one ear on your head would hear. But using
maths and phase relationship, it's possible to "point"
the microphone array in a virtual sense and extract
just a portion of the soundscape. The more microphones
used, the tighter the virtual beam can be. Like, with
two microphones (the way the human head works), it's
still possible with neural processing, to pick out
a particular conversation in a crowd. The software
phased array approach, is just less clever.

Some little academic projects, the grad students
use 64 microphones. As proof how bored they are.
When you do that, attention to detail counts, and
the recording chips need to be sampling using
a common clock and synchronization. Just buying 64
USB microphones off Amazon might not work so well.

By using technology like this, it's possible to
scan an item (in post-processing) and determine the
locus of the sound source. A stethoscope is cheaper.

Paul
Adam
2021-03-20 03:53:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 03/19/2021 07:44 PM, Paul wrote:
> Adam wrote:
>
>>
>> Thanks, Guru Paul !!
>>
>> Because the tray was already empty, I got his hint that
>> the problem may be optical drive-related. So, going one step further,
>> I removed the optical drive entirely.
>>
>> Anyways, got the optical drive out through the HDD bay after removing two screws from
>> the outside holding the optical drive in place. Saw an optical drive screw hole from the HDD bay.
>> Got leverage of the screw hole with a phillips screwdriver and slid the optical drive out.
>>
>> Here's a pic of the "old" optical drive...
>>
>> https://i.postimg.cc/L8JNK1Cb/IMG-0079.jpg
>>
>> It's old so I'll replace it. How about an external USB Lite-On Optical Drives EBAU108-01 ?
>> Internal optical drives are harder to match. Maybe I'll disable the optical drive via BIOS and
>> stick the old optical drive back in to fill the hole.
>>
>> After removing the optical drive, the laptop is still quite noisy.
>> What else can be the cause ?
>>
>> I'm getting nervous and have been planning to move to a newer laptop.
>> Specs are different so simply inserting the HDD in the newer laptop didn't work.
>> Had graphics issues because video is different [ATI Mobility Radeon (old) vs Intel HD Graphics (newer)].
>> Is there a workaround ? Or, do I need a new install of Ubuntu ?
>>
>
> I don't see a price, but depending on whether this seller ships to
> where you are, you might see a price.
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Genuine-PANASONIC-UJ890-Optical-PIK-UJ890/dp/B083RXC1J2
>
> There's no real reason to pull the drive if it's not the
> noise source.
>
> Maybe the machine has two cooling fans.
>
> *******
>
> If using non-proprietary video drivers (nouveau or similar),
> the OS should probe at boot time and select the driver that
> matches the current crop of hardware.
>
> That's how my Linux Mint USB stick (the one I use all the time
> for forensics), is able to boot on the various machines. It won't
> boot on the first computer, because it doesn't have the memory for it.
>
> When the OS is installed, it's still transportable. In fact, that's
> how I got Linux running on one of the machines (which doesn't know
> how to boot a DVD and the USB is only USB 1.1). I installed on a
> more capable machine (32 bit version), then moved the hard drive
> over to the machine in question and it booted.
>
> So there is transportability.
>
> *******
>
> If you had a stethoscope, you could press that on the
> surface and search for "peak sound" :-) Sound questions
> are pretty tough to solve from a distance, even with
> a sound sample.
>
> They make array microphones, but I don't know if there
> is the right kind of software to use with them. There
> is a very expensive array microphone, that has "beam steering",
> and allows extracting "tracks" from a live recording.
> You can record a band, use the software, and extract
> a "drum track", a "lead singer track" and so on, and
> it's all done by beam forming of the signals,
> as a step in post. Then if another sound engineer
> wants to mix down the tracks, they can take the
> artificially produced tracks and use them.
>
> Without the beam steering, the recording would already be mixed
> in the broad sense (each individual microphone, only
> hears what one ear on your head would hear. But using
> maths and phase relationship, it's possible to "point"
> the microphone array in a virtual sense and extract
> just a portion of the soundscape. The more microphones
> used, the tighter the virtual beam can be. Like, with
> two microphones (the way the human head works), it's
> still possible with neural processing, to pick out
> a particular conversation in a crowd. The software
> phased array approach, is just less clever.
>
> Some little academic projects, the grad students
> use 64 microphones. As proof how bored they are.
> When you do that, attention to detail counts, and
> the recording chips need to be sampling using
> a common clock and synchronization. Just buying 64
> USB microphones off Amazon might not work so well.
>
> By using technology like this, it's possible to
> scan an item (in post-processing) and determine the
> locus of the sound source. A stethoscope is cheaper.
>
> Paul

Yes, you both (Azigni) might be right about the fan shifting into high gear.
When I put my ear (stethoscope :-) closer to the keyboard,
the sound was more toward the center-left of the keyboard away from
the drives, HDD & optical, on the right half of the keyboard).
Maybe the CPU thermal compound/paste got toasted after
downloading the Ubuntu ISO file ? Yikes !!

Here's a pic of the motherboard...

https://i.postimg.cc/cCdBxkmh/IMG-0091.jpg

Center-left of the keyboard would be right over the CPU.
Now that's what I call surgery. :-)

Why did Dr. Fauci have to go and make Fry's close ?
Adam
2021-03-20 04:17:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 03/19/2021 07:44 PM, Paul wrote:
> Adam wrote:
>
>>
>> Thanks, Guru Paul !!
>>
>> Because the tray was already empty, I got his hint that
>> the problem may be optical drive-related. So, going one step further,
>> I removed the optical drive entirely.
>>
>> Anyways, got the optical drive out through the HDD bay after removing two screws from
>> the outside holding the optical drive in place. Saw an optical drive screw hole from the HDD bay.
>> Got leverage of the screw hole with a phillips screwdriver and slid the optical drive out.
>>
>> Here's a pic of the "old" optical drive...
>>
>> https://i.postimg.cc/L8JNK1Cb/IMG-0079.jpg
>>
>> It's old so I'll replace it. How about an external USB Lite-On Optical Drives EBAU108-01 ?
>> Internal optical drives are harder to match. Maybe I'll disable the optical drive via BIOS and
>> stick the old optical drive back in to fill the hole.
>>
>> After removing the optical drive, the laptop is still quite noisy.
>> What else can be the cause ?
>>
>> I'm getting nervous and have been planning to move to a newer laptop.
>> Specs are different so simply inserting the HDD in the newer laptop didn't work.
>> Had graphics issues because video is different [ATI Mobility Radeon (old) vs Intel HD Graphics (newer)].
>> Is there a workaround ? Or, do I need a new install of Ubuntu ?
>>
>
> I don't see a price, but depending on whether this seller ships to
> where you are, you might see a price.
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Genuine-PANASONIC-UJ890-Optical-PIK-UJ890/dp/B083RXC1J2
>
> There's no real reason to pull the drive if it's not the
> noise source.
>
> Maybe the machine has two cooling fans.
>
> *******
>
> If using non-proprietary video drivers (nouveau or similar),
> the OS should probe at boot time and select the driver that
> matches the current crop of hardware.
>
> That's how my Linux Mint USB stick (the one I use all the time
> for forensics), is able to boot on the various machines. It won't
> boot on the first computer, because it doesn't have the memory for it.
>
> When the OS is installed, it's still transportable. In fact, that's
> how I got Linux running on one of the machines (which doesn't know
> how to boot a DVD and the USB is only USB 1.1). I installed on a
> more capable machine (32 bit version), then moved the hard drive
> over to the machine in question and it booted.
>
> So there is transportability.
>

Then, the problem may be the newer laptop has hardware that
is not supported by the existing Ubuntu version in use. So,
I will install a newer version of Ubuntu then.


> *******
>
> If you had a stethoscope, you could press that on the
> surface and search for "peak sound" :-) Sound questions
> are pretty tough to solve from a distance, even with
> a sound sample.
>
> They make array microphones, but I don't know if there
> is the right kind of software to use with them. There
> is a very expensive array microphone, that has "beam steering",
> and allows extracting "tracks" from a live recording.
> You can record a band, use the software, and extract
> a "drum track", a "lead singer track" and so on, and
> it's all done by beam forming of the signals,
> as a step in post. Then if another sound engineer
> wants to mix down the tracks, they can take the
> artificially produced tracks and use them.
>
> Without the beam steering, the recording would already be mixed
> in the broad sense (each individual microphone, only
> hears what one ear on your head would hear. But using
> maths and phase relationship, it's possible to "point"
> the microphone array in a virtual sense and extract
> just a portion of the soundscape. The more microphones
> used, the tighter the virtual beam can be. Like, with
> two microphones (the way the human head works), it's
> still possible with neural processing, to pick out
> a particular conversation in a crowd. The software
> phased array approach, is just less clever.
>
> Some little academic projects, the grad students
> use 64 microphones. As proof how bored they are.
> When you do that, attention to detail counts, and
> the recording chips need to be sampling using
> a common clock and synchronization. Just buying 64
> USB microphones off Amazon might not work so well.
>
> By using technology like this, it's possible to
> scan an item (in post-processing) and determine the
> locus of the sound source. A stethoscope is cheaper.
>
> Paul
Jonathan N. Little
2021-03-20 12:58:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Adam wrote:
> Then, the problem may be the newer laptop has hardware that
> is not supported by the existing Ubuntu version in use.  So,
> I will install a newer version of Ubuntu then.

Not supported? I get an approx date of 2013 for your laptop. I have a
Thinkpad L530 of basically the same era running 20.04 LTS no problem...

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
azigni
2021-03-20 01:11:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
I think you are hearing your cooling fan kick into high gear
Adam
2021-03-20 02:02:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 03/19/2021 06:11 PM, azigni wrote:
> I think you are hearing your cooling fan kick into high gear
>

Thanks, is it normal for the cooling fan to kick into
high gear after starting the laptop for only minutes (~15) ?
I've been shutting down the laptop for fear that
it'll completely fail before I get all data from it.

I've been powering it on only when absolutely necessary.
azigni
2021-03-20 04:27:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Well, my Dell Desktop does the same sometimes, I don't know if it's
normal or not though.
Dirk T. Verbeek
2021-03-20 10:02:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Op 20-03-2021 om 03:02 schreef Adam:
> On 03/19/2021 06:11 PM, azigni wrote:
>> I think you are hearing your cooling fan kick into high gear
>>
>
> Thanks, is it normal for the cooling fan to kick into
> high gear after starting the laptop for only minutes (~15) ?
> I've been shutting down the laptop for fear that
> it'll completely fail before I get all data from it.
>
> I've been powering it on only when absolutely necessary.
>
Install something to measure and display the CPU temperature.
Harold Stevens
2021-03-20 10:24:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
In <6055c84d$0$27927$***@news.xs4all.nl> Dirk T. Verbeek:

>> On 03/19/2021 06:11 PM, azigni wrote:
>>> I think you are hearing your cooling fan kick into high gear

[Snip...]

> Install something to measure and display the CPU temperature.

Yes, and top in a terminal, to see what's chewing up CPU time.

***@limbo:~$ top
top - 05:21:32 up 2:01, 2 users, load average: 0.12, 0.07, 0.06
Tasks: 207 total, 2 running, 145 sleeping, 0 stopped, 1 zombie
%Cpu(s): 0.4 us, 0.3 sy, 0.0 ni, 99.1 id, 0.2 wa, 0.0 hi, 0.0 si, 0.0 st
KiB Mem : 16404820 total, 10303384 free, 1045212 used, 5056224 buff/cache
KiB Swap: 2097148 total, 2097148 free, 0 used. 14984564 avail Mem

PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND
1374 root 20 0 698308 74020 43276 S 1.0 0.5 2:03.63 Xorg
987 nut 20 0 21996 368 0 S 0.3 0.0 0:03.88 usbhid-ups
6027 root 20 0 0 0 0 I 0.3 0.0 0:00.05 kworker/0:+
1 root 20 0 225480 9144 6680 S 0.0 0.1 0:01.78 systemd
2 root 20 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 kthreadd
3 root 0 -20 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 rcu_gp
4 root 0 -20 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 rcu_par_gp
6 root 0 -20 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 kworker/0:+
9 root 0 -20 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 mm_percpu_+
10 root 20 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.14 ksoftirqd/0
11 root 20 0 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:03.31 rcu_sched
12 root rt 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.02 migration/0
13 root -51 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 idle_injec+
14 root 20 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 cpuhp/0
15 root 20 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 cpuhp/1
16 root -51 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 idle_injec+
17 root rt 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.14 migration/1
***@limbo:~$

--
Regards, Weird (Harold Stevens) * IMPORTANT EMAIL INFO FOLLOWS *
Pardon any bogus email addresses (wookie) in place for spambots.
Really, it's (wyrd) at att, dotted with net. * DO NOT SPAM IT. *
I toss GoogleGroup (http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/).
Adam
2021-03-20 17:51:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 03/20/2021 03:24 AM, Harold Stevens wrote:
> In <6055c84d$0$27927$***@news.xs4all.nl> Dirk T. Verbeek:
>
>>> On 03/19/2021 06:11 PM, azigni wrote:
>>>> I think you are hearing your cooling fan kick into high gear
>
> [Snip...]
>
>> Install something to measure and display the CPU temperature.
>
> Yes, and top in a terminal, to see what's chewing up CPU time.
>
> ***@limbo:~$ top
> top - 05:21:32 up 2:01, 2 users, load average: 0.12, 0.07, 0.06
> Tasks: 207 total, 2 running, 145 sleeping, 0 stopped, 1 zombie
> %Cpu(s): 0.4 us, 0.3 sy, 0.0 ni, 99.1 id, 0.2 wa, 0.0 hi, 0.0 si, 0.0 st
> KiB Mem : 16404820 total, 10303384 free, 1045212 used, 5056224 buff/cache
> KiB Swap: 2097148 total, 2097148 free, 0 used. 14984564 avail Mem
>
> PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND
> 1374 root 20 0 698308 74020 43276 S 1.0 0.5 2:03.63 Xorg
> 987 nut 20 0 21996 368 0 S 0.3 0.0 0:03.88 usbhid-ups
> 6027 root 20 0 0 0 0 I 0.3 0.0 0:00.05 kworker/0:+
> 1 root 20 0 225480 9144 6680 S 0.0 0.1 0:01.78 systemd
> 2 root 20 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 kthreadd
> 3 root 0 -20 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 rcu_gp
> 4 root 0 -20 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 rcu_par_gp
> 6 root 0 -20 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 kworker/0:+
> 9 root 0 -20 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 mm_percpu_+
> 10 root 20 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.14 ksoftirqd/0
> 11 root 20 0 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:03.31 rcu_sched
> 12 root rt 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.02 migration/0
> 13 root -51 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 idle_injec+
> 14 root 20 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 cpuhp/0
> 15 root 20 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 cpuhp/1
> 16 root -51 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 idle_injec+
> 17 root rt 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.14 migration/1
> ***@limbo:~$
>

I was able to run "top" but copying the output was tricky because of the way top updates.
Anyways, I was able to quickly "Select All" then copy several times the output to a text file (top.txt).
But, I was not able to copy the top.txt file to my USB thumb drive.
Something seems to be wrong with file transfer.

I had copied a folder called "Taxes-Current" the other day after the noise appeared.

But, contents looks like garbage...

https://i.postimg.cc/8zrg2S1h/Taxes-Current.png
Adam
2021-03-20 18:05:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 03/20/2021 10:51 AM, Adam wrote:
> On 03/20/2021 03:24 AM, Harold Stevens wrote:
>> In <6055c84d$0$27927$***@news.xs4all.nl> Dirk T. Verbeek:
>>
>>>> On 03/19/2021 06:11 PM, azigni wrote:
>>>>> I think you are hearing your cooling fan kick into high gear
>>
>> [Snip...]
>>
>>> Install something to measure and display the CPU temperature.
>>
>> Yes, and top in a terminal, to see what's chewing up CPU time.
>>
>> ***@limbo:~$ top
>> top - 05:21:32 up 2:01, 2 users, load average: 0.12, 0.07, 0.06
>> Tasks: 207 total, 2 running, 145 sleeping, 0 stopped, 1 zombie
>> %Cpu(s): 0.4 us, 0.3 sy, 0.0 ni, 99.1 id, 0.2 wa, 0.0 hi, 0.0 si, 0.0 st
>> KiB Mem : 16404820 total, 10303384 free, 1045212 used, 5056224 buff/cache
>> KiB Swap: 2097148 total, 2097148 free, 0 used. 14984564 avail Mem
>>
>> PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND
>> 1374 root 20 0 698308 74020 43276 S 1.0 0.5 2:03.63 Xorg
>> 987 nut 20 0 21996 368 0 S 0.3 0.0 0:03.88 usbhid-ups
>> 6027 root 20 0 0 0 0 I 0.3 0.0 0:00.05 kworker/0:+
>> 1 root 20 0 225480 9144 6680 S 0.0 0.1 0:01.78 systemd
>> 2 root 20 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 kthreadd
>> 3 root 0 -20 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 rcu_gp
>> 4 root 0 -20 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 rcu_par_gp
>> 6 root 0 -20 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 kworker/0:+
>> 9 root 0 -20 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 mm_percpu_+
>> 10 root 20 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.14 ksoftirqd/0
>> 11 root 20 0 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:03.31 rcu_sched
>> 12 root rt 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.02 migration/0
>> 13 root -51 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 idle_injec+
>> 14 root 20 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 cpuhp/0
>> 15 root 20 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 cpuhp/1
>> 16 root -51 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 idle_injec+
>> 17 root rt 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.14 migration/1
>> ***@limbo:~$
>>
>
> I was able to run "top" but copying the output was tricky because of the way top updates.
> Anyways, I was able to quickly "Select All" then copy several times the output to a text file (top.txt).
> But, I was not able to copy the top.txt file to my USB thumb drive.
> Something seems to be wrong with file transfer.
>
> I had copied a folder called "Taxes-Current" the other day after the noise appeared.
>
> But, contents looks like garbage...
>
> https://i.postimg.cc/8zrg2S1h/Taxes-Current.png
>

The message dialog...

https://i.postimg.cc/3JkgQLzX/This-location-could-not-be-displayed.png

Looks like something is wrong with the motherboard ?
Paul
2021-03-21 06:18:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Adam wrote:
> On 03/20/2021 10:51 AM, Adam wrote:
>> On 03/20/2021 03:24 AM, Harold Stevens wrote:
>>> In <6055c84d$0$27927$***@news.xs4all.nl> Dirk T. Verbeek:
>>>
>>>>> On 03/19/2021 06:11 PM, azigni wrote:
>>>>>> I think you are hearing your cooling fan kick into high gear
>>>
>>> [Snip...]
>>>
>>>> Install something to measure and display the CPU temperature.
>>>
>>> Yes, and top in a terminal, to see what's chewing up CPU time.
>>>
>>> ***@limbo:~$ top
>>> top - 05:21:32 up 2:01, 2 users, load average: 0.12, 0.07, 0.06
>>> Tasks: 207 total, 2 running, 145 sleeping, 0 stopped, 1 zombie
>>> %Cpu(s): 0.4 us, 0.3 sy, 0.0 ni, 99.1 id, 0.2 wa, 0.0 hi, 0.0
>>> si, 0.0 st
>>> KiB Mem : 16404820 total, 10303384 free, 1045212 used, 5056224
>>> buff/cache
>>> KiB Swap: 2097148 total, 2097148 free, 0 used. 14984564
>>> avail Mem
>>>
>>> PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+
>>> COMMAND
>>> 1374 root 20 0 698308 74020 43276 S 1.0 0.5 2:03.63 Xorg
>>> 987 nut 20 0 21996 368 0 S 0.3 0.0 0:03.88
>>> usbhid-ups
>>> 6027 root 20 0 0 0 0 I 0.3 0.0 0:00.05
>>> kworker/0:+
>>> 1 root 20 0 225480 9144 6680 S 0.0 0.1 0:01.78
>>> systemd
>>> 2 root 20 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00
>>> kthreadd
>>> 3 root 0 -20 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:00.00
>>> rcu_gp
>>> 4 root 0 -20 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:00.00
>>> rcu_par_gp
>>> 6 root 0 -20 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:00.00
>>> kworker/0:+
>>> 9 root 0 -20 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:00.00
>>> mm_percpu_+
>>> 10 root 20 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.14
>>> ksoftirqd/0
>>> 11 root 20 0 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:03.31
>>> rcu_sched
>>> 12 root rt 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.02
>>> migration/0
>>> 13 root -51 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00
>>> idle_injec+
>>> 14 root 20 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00
>>> cpuhp/0
>>> 15 root 20 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00
>>> cpuhp/1
>>> 16 root -51 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00
>>> idle_injec+
>>> 17 root rt 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.14
>>> migration/1
>>> ***@limbo:~$
>>>
>>
>> I was able to run "top" but copying the output was tricky because of
>> the way top updates.
>> Anyways, I was able to quickly "Select All" then copy several times
>> the output to a text file (top.txt).
>> But, I was not able to copy the top.txt file to my USB thumb drive.
>> Something seems to be wrong with file transfer.
>>
>> I had copied a folder called "Taxes-Current" the other day after the
>> noise appeared.
>>
>> But, contents looks like garbage...
>>
>> https://i.postimg.cc/8zrg2S1h/Taxes-Current.png
>>
>
> The message dialog...
>
> https://i.postimg.cc/3JkgQLzX/This-location-could-not-be-displayed.png
>
> Looks like something is wrong with the motherboard ?

Maybe the controller in the Rally2 or the Flash Chip in the Rally2.
I have a Rally 2 here as well, and mine is 8GB. Both the dates and
file sizes are corrupt in your picture.

I would guess, just a bad USB stick.

Move the stick to a second, known good machine, and see if it
still displays as bad.

Read and write test the Rally 2, on the known-good computer.

Then stick the Rally2 back in the defective machine and see
if bytes are still getting corrupted.

If the 5V rail was lower in voltage than normal, that
might cause flash corruption on reads. Since the Rally2 has
that nice orange LED, compare the brilliance of the orange LED
on the known-good computer, versus on the HM55 based machine.

If the HM55 based machine has three USB ports, they might not
all be defective. A single power monitoring chip, runs two
USB ports. A laptop typically has three ports, so one of the
ports may work better than the other two.

Paul
Adam
2021-03-21 16:35:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 03/20/2021 11:18 PM, Paul wrote:
> Adam wrote:
>> On 03/20/2021 10:51 AM, Adam wrote:
>>> On 03/20/2021 03:24 AM, Harold Stevens wrote:
>>>> In <6055c84d$0$27927$***@news.xs4all.nl> Dirk T. Verbeek:
>>>>
>>>>>> On 03/19/2021 06:11 PM, azigni wrote:
>>>>>>> I think you are hearing your cooling fan kick into high gear
>>>>
>>>> [Snip...]
>>>>
>>>>> Install something to measure and display the CPU temperature.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, and top in a terminal, to see what's chewing up CPU time.
>>>>
>>>> ***@limbo:~$ top
>>>> top - 05:21:32 up 2:01, 2 users, load average: 0.12, 0.07, 0.06
>>>> Tasks: 207 total, 2 running, 145 sleeping, 0 stopped, 1 zombie
>>>> %Cpu(s): 0.4 us, 0.3 sy, 0.0 ni, 99.1 id, 0.2 wa, 0.0 hi, 0.0 si, 0.0 st
>>>> KiB Mem : 16404820 total, 10303384 free, 1045212 used, 5056224 buff/cache
>>>> KiB Swap: 2097148 total, 2097148 free, 0 used. 14984564 avail Mem
>>>>
>>>> PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND
>>>> 1374 root 20 0 698308 74020 43276 S 1.0 0.5 2:03.63 Xorg
>>>> 987 nut 20 0 21996 368 0 S 0.3 0.0 0:03.88 usbhid-ups
>>>> 6027 root 20 0 0 0 0 I 0.3 0.0 0:00.05 kworker/0:+
>>>> 1 root 20 0 225480 9144 6680 S 0.0 0.1 0:01.78 systemd
>>>> 2 root 20 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 kthreadd
>>>> 3 root 0 -20 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 rcu_gp
>>>> 4 root 0 -20 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 rcu_par_gp
>>>> 6 root 0 -20 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 kworker/0:+
>>>> 9 root 0 -20 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 mm_percpu_+
>>>> 10 root 20 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.14 ksoftirqd/0
>>>> 11 root 20 0 0 0 0 I 0.0 0.0 0:03.31 rcu_sched
>>>> 12 root rt 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.02 migration/0
>>>> 13 root -51 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 idle_injec+
>>>> 14 root 20 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 cpuhp/0
>>>> 15 root 20 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 cpuhp/1
>>>> 16 root -51 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 idle_injec+
>>>> 17 root rt 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.14 migration/1
>>>> ***@limbo:~$
>>>>
>>>
>>> I was able to run "top" but copying the output was tricky because of the way top updates.
>>> Anyways, I was able to quickly "Select All" then copy several times the output to a text file (top.txt).
>>> But, I was not able to copy the top.txt file to my USB thumb drive.
>>> Something seems to be wrong with file transfer.
>>>
>>> I had copied a folder called "Taxes-Current" the other day after the noise appeared.
>>>
>>> But, contents looks like garbage...
>>>
>>> https://i.postimg.cc/8zrg2S1h/Taxes-Current.png
>>>
>>
>> The message dialog...
>>
>> https://i.postimg.cc/3JkgQLzX/This-location-could-not-be-displayed.png
>>
>> Looks like something is wrong with the motherboard ?
>
> Maybe the controller in the Rally2 or the Flash Chip in the Rally2.
> I have a Rally 2 here as well, and mine is 8GB. Both the dates and
> file sizes are corrupt in your picture.
>
> I would guess, just a bad USB stick.
>

You may be on to something.


> Move the stick to a second, known good machine, and see if it
> still displays as bad.
>

Pics were all taken from a known good laptop. I haven't been able to
get anything out of the noisy bad laptop.


> Read and write test the Rally 2, on the known-good computer.
>

I just tried to copy another folder (from the known-good laptop) to the Rally2 USB stick...

https://i.postimg.cc/qqZn527k/Error-while-copying-folder.png

The USB stick has become read-only. I can still read old files that
were written before the USB stick lost write capability.

GParted shows a key next to the partition...
https://i.postimg.cc/XJt35BzZ/GParted-shows-Rally2-Locked.png

Strange !! How'd that happen ? Is that why the Rally2 USB stick is now read-only ?


> Then stick the Rally2 back in the defective machine and see
> if bytes are still getting corrupted.
>
> If the 5V rail was lower in voltage than normal, that
> might cause flash corruption on reads. Since the Rally2 has
> that nice orange LED, compare the brilliance of the orange LED
> on the known-good computer, versus on the HM55 based machine.
>
> If the HM55 based machine has three USB ports, they might not
> all be defective. A single power monitoring chip, runs two
> USB ports. A laptop typically has three ports, so one of the
> ports may work better than the other two.
>
> Paul
Jonathan N. Little
2021-03-21 17:27:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Adam wrote:
>
> The USB stick has become read-only.  I can still read old files that
> were written before the USB stick lost write capability.

Some USB sticks become read-only when failing to protect existing data.
Sandisk is on brand that has such feature. My guess is your Rally2 USB
stick "pining for the fjords" like an infamous parrot.

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
Adam
2021-03-21 21:43:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 03/21/2021 10:27 AM, Jonathan N. Little wrote:
> Adam wrote:
>>
>> The USB stick has become read-only. I can still read old files that
>> were written before the USB stick lost write capability.useful info
>
> Some USB sticks become read-only when failing to protect existing data.
> Sandisk is on brand that has such feature. My guess is your Rally2 USB
> stick "pining for the fjords" like an infamous parrot.
>

Guess it's about time since it was purchased before the following May 2012 purchase...

https://i.postimg.cc/hPFfhnGG/OCZ-Mod-XStream-Pro-600-W-Modular-High-Performance-Power-Supply.png

First OCZ product I purchased was...

OCZ Rally2 16GB USB 2.0 Flash Drive Model OCZUSBR2DC-16GB
https://www.newegg.com/model-oczusbr2dc-16gb/p/N82E16820227272

but I can't locate purchase order for date info.


Hmmm...wonder if I could burn "Taxes - Current" folder to a data disc.
Don't want to risk losing another USB stick just in case.

Cloned the bad USB stick. How to unlock ? Searched but no luck.
Jonathan N. Little
2021-03-21 22:33:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Adam wrote:
> On 03/21/2021 10:27 AM, Jonathan N. Little wrote:
>> Adam wrote:
>>>
>>> The USB stick has become read-only.  I can still read old files that
>>> were written before the USB stick lost write capability.useful info
>>
>> Some USB sticks become read-only when failing to protect existing data.
>> Sandisk is on brand that has such feature. My guess is your Rally2 USB
>> stick "pining for the fjords" like an infamous parrot.
>>
>
> Guess it's about time since it was purchased before the following May
> 2012 purchase...
>
> https://i.postimg.cc/hPFfhnGG/OCZ-Mod-XStream-Pro-600-W-Modular-High-Performance-Power-Supply.png
>
>
> First OCZ product I purchased was...
>
> OCZ Rally2 16GB USB 2.0 Flash Drive Model OCZUSBR2DC-16GB
> https://www.newegg.com/model-oczusbr2dc-16gb/p/N82E16820227272
>
> but I can't locate purchase order for date info.
>
>
> Hmmm...wonder if I could burn "Taxes - Current" folder to a data disc.
> Don't want to risk losing another USB stick just in case.
>
> Cloned the bad USB stick.  How to unlock ?  Searched but no luck.

It is it the safety feature of the USB stick as I described then you
cannot. Its trigger by the flashes controller. Get a new thumbdrive can
copy what you can before it becomes total dead.

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
Adam
2021-03-21 22:50:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 03/21/2021 03:33 PM, Jonathan N. Little wrote:
> Adam wrote:
>> On 03/21/2021 10:27 AM, Jonathan N. Little wrote:
>>> Adam wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The USB stick has become read-only. I can still read old files that
>>>> were written before the USB stick lost write capability.useful info
>>>
>>> Some USB sticks become read-only when failing to protect existing data.
>>> Sandisk is on brand that has such feature. My guess is your Rally2 USB
>>> stick "pining for the fjords" like an infamous parrot.
>>>
>>
>> Guess it's about time since it was purchased before the following May
>> 2012 purchase...
>>
>> https://i.postimg.cc/hPFfhnGG/OCZ-Mod-XStream-Pro-600-W-Modular-High-Performance-Power-Supply.png
>>
>>
>> First OCZ product I purchased was...
>>
>> OCZ Rally2 16GB USB 2.0 Flash Drive Model OCZUSBR2DC-16GB
>> https://www.newegg.com/model-oczusbr2dc-16gb/p/N82E16820227272
>>
>> but I can't locate purchase order for date info.
>>
>>
>> Hmmm...wonder if I could burn "Taxes - Current" folder to a data disc.
>> Don't want to risk losing another USB stick just in case.
>>
>> Cloned the bad USB stick. How to unlock ? Searched but no luck.
>
> It is it the safety feature of the USB stick as I described then you
> cannot. Its trigger by the flashes controller. Get a new thumbdrive can
> copy what you can before it becomes total dead.
>

Yes, I cloned it but the clone keeps the lock. So, ALL files are read-only even after cloning ?
And, there's no way out ? Not good.
Paul
2021-03-21 23:36:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Adam wrote:
> On 03/21/2021 03:33 PM, Jonathan N. Little wrote:
>> Adam wrote:
>>> On 03/21/2021 10:27 AM, Jonathan N. Little wrote:
>>>> Adam wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> The USB stick has become read-only. I can still read old files that
>>>>> were written before the USB stick lost write capability.useful info
>>>>
>>>> Some USB sticks become read-only when failing to protect existing data.
>>>> Sandisk is on brand that has such feature. My guess is your Rally2 USB
>>>> stick "pining for the fjords" like an infamous parrot.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Guess it's about time since it was purchased before the following May
>>> 2012 purchase...
>>>
>>> https://i.postimg.cc/hPFfhnGG/OCZ-Mod-XStream-Pro-600-W-Modular-High-Performance-Power-Supply.png
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> First OCZ product I purchased was...
>>>
>>> OCZ Rally2 16GB USB 2.0 Flash Drive Model OCZUSBR2DC-16GB
>>> https://www.newegg.com/model-oczusbr2dc-16gb/p/N82E16820227272
>>>
>>> but I can't locate purchase order for date info.
>>>
>>>
>>> Hmmm...wonder if I could burn "Taxes - Current" folder to a data disc.
>>> Don't want to risk losing another USB stick just in case.
>>>
>>> Cloned the bad USB stick. How to unlock ? Searched but no luck.
>>
>> It is it the safety feature of the USB stick as I described then you
>> cannot. Its trigger by the flashes controller. Get a new thumbdrive can
>> copy what you can before it becomes total dead.
>>
>
> Yes, I cloned it but the clone keeps the lock. So, ALL files are
> read-only even after cloning ?
> And, there's no way out ? Not good.
>

What does /etc/mtab say for the mount ?
Is it "... -o ro" for read-only ?
Maybe it needs "sudo remount -o rw" type treatment.

I thought a topic like this came up recently,
something that was mounting read-only.

Paul
Adam
2021-03-22 00:43:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 03/21/2021 04:36 PM, Paul wrote:
> Adam wrote:
>> On 03/21/2021 03:33 PM, Jonathan N. Little wrote:
>>> Adam wrote:
>>>> On 03/21/2021 10:27 AM, Jonathan N. Little wrote:
>>>>> Adam wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The USB stick has become read-only. I can still read old files that
>>>>>> were written before the USB stick lost write capability.useful info
>>>>>
>>>>> Some USB sticks become read-only when failing to protect existing data.
>>>>> Sandisk is on brand that has such feature. My guess is your Rally2 USB
>>>>> stick "pining for the fjords" like an infamous parrot.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Guess it's about time since it was purchased before the following May
>>>> 2012 purchase...
>>>>
>>>> https://i.postimg.cc/hPFfhnGG/OCZ-Mod-XStream-Pro-600-W-Modular-High-Performance-Power-Supply.png
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> First OCZ product I purchased was...
>>>>
>>>> OCZ Rally2 16GB USB 2.0 Flash Drive Model OCZUSBR2DC-16GB
>>>> https://www.newegg.com/model-oczusbr2dc-16gb/p/N82E16820227272
>>>>
>>>> but I can't locate purchase order for date info.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hmmm...wonder if I could burn "Taxes - Current" folder to a data disc.
>>>> Don't want to risk losing another USB stick just in case.
>>>>
>>>> Cloned the bad USB stick. How to unlock ? Searched but no luck.
>>>
>>> It is it the safety feature of the USB stick as I described then you
>>> cannot. Its trigger by the flashes controller. Get a new thumbdrive can
>>> copy what you can before it becomes total dead.
>>>
>>
>> Yes, I cloned it but the clone keeps the lock. So, ALL files are read-only even after cloning ?
>> And, there's no way out ? Not good.
>>
>
> What does /etc/mtab say for the mount ?
> Is it "... -o ro" for read-only ?
> Maybe it needs "sudo remount -o rw" type treatment.
>
> I thought a topic like this came up recently,
> something that was mounting read-only.
>
> Paul

Just the two (2) partitions for the USB stick clone...

/dev/sda1 /media/ubuntu/RALLY2 vfat ro,nosuid,nodev,relatime,uid=999,gid=999,fmask=0022,dmask=0022,codepage=437,iocharset=iso8859-1,shortname=mixed,showexec,utf8,flush,errors=remount-ro 0 0
/dev/sda2 /media/ubuntu/SPBLAZE64GB vfat rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,uid=999,gid=999,fmask=0022,dmask=0022,codepage=437,iocharset=iso8859-1,shortname=mixed,showexec,utf8,flush,errors=remount-ro 0 0

Looks like the clone inherited the lock for the entire USB stick. I created /dev/sda2 partition thinking that I'll copy the files over but that inherits the lock too.


Entire /etc/mtab...
==========================================================================================================================================================
sysfs /sys sysfs rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime 0 0
proc /proc proc rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime 0 0
udev /dev devtmpfs rw,nosuid,relatime,size=3996656k,nr_inodes=999164,mode=755 0 0
devpts /dev/pts devpts rw,nosuid,noexec,relatime,gid=5,mode=620,ptmxmode=000 0 0
tmpfs /run tmpfs rw,nosuid,noexec,relatime,size=808860k,mode=755 0 0
/dev/sdb4 /cdrom iso9660 ro,noatime 0 0
/dev/loop0 /rofs squashfs ro,noatime 0 0
/cow / overlay rw,relatime,lowerdir=//filesystem.squashfs,upperdir=/cow/upper,workdir=/cow/work 0 0
securityfs /sys/kernel/security securityfs rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime 0 0
tmpfs /dev/shm tmpfs rw,nosuid,nodev 0 0
tmpfs /run/lock tmpfs rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,size=5120k 0 0
tmpfs /sys/fs/cgroup tmpfs ro,nosuid,nodev,noexec,mode=755 0 0
cgroup /sys/fs/cgroup/systemd cgroup rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,xattr,release_agent=/lib/systemd/systemd-cgroups-agent,name=systemd,nsroot=/ 0 0
pstore /sys/fs/pstore pstore rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime 0 0
cgroup /sys/fs/cgroup/pids cgroup rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,pids,nsroot=/ 0 0
cgroup /sys/fs/cgroup/cpuset cgroup rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,cpuset,nsroot=/ 0 0
cgroup /sys/fs/cgroup/net_cls,net_prio cgroup rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,net_cls,net_prio,nsroot=/ 0 0
cgroup /sys/fs/cgroup/memory cgroup rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,memory,nsroot=/ 0 0
cgroup /sys/fs/cgroup/cpu,cpuacct cgroup rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,cpu,cpuacct,nsroot=/ 0 0
cgroup /sys/fs/cgroup/freezer cgroup rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,freezer,nsroot=/ 0 0
cgroup /sys/fs/cgroup/devices cgroup rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,devices,nsroot=/ 0 0
cgroup /sys/fs/cgroup/hugetlb cgroup rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,hugetlb,nsroot=/ 0 0
cgroup /sys/fs/cgroup/perf_event cgroup rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,perf_event,nsroot=/ 0 0
cgroup /sys/fs/cgroup/blkio cgroup rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,blkio,nsroot=/ 0 0
systemd-1 /proc/sys/fs/binfmt_misc autofs rw,relatime,fd=31,pgrp=1,timeout=0,minproto=5,maxproto=5,direct 0 0
mqueue /dev/mqueue mqueue rw,relatime 0 0
hugetlbfs /dev/hugepages hugetlbfs rw,relatime 0 0
debugfs /sys/kernel/debug debugfs rw,relatime 0 0
tracefs /sys/kernel/debug/tracing tracefs rw,relatime 0 0
fusectl /sys/fs/fuse/connections fusectl rw,relatime 0 0
tmpfs /tmp tmpfs rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime 0 0
tmpfs /run/user/999 tmpfs rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,size=808860k,mode=700,uid=999,gid=999 0 0
gvfsd-fuse /run/user/999/gvfs fuse.gvfsd-fuse rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,user_id=999,group_id=999 0 0
/dev/sda2 /media/ubuntu/SPBLAZE64GB vfat rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,uid=999,gid=999,fmask=0022,dmask=0022,codepage=437,iocharset=iso8859-1,shortname=mixed,showexec,utf8,flush,errors=remount-ro 0 0
/dev/sda1 /media/ubuntu/RALLY2 vfat ro,nosuid,nodev,relatime,uid=999,gid=999,fmask=0022,dmask=0022,codepage=437,iocharset=iso8859-1,shortname=mixed,showexec,utf8,flush,errors=remount-ro 0 0
/dev/sdb5 /media/ubuntu/casper-rw ext4 rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,block_validity,delalloc,barrier,user_xattr,acl 0 0
/dev/sdb1 /media/ubuntu/usbdata fuseblk rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,user_id=0,group_id=0,default_permissions,allow_other,blksize=4096 0 0
==========================================================================================================================================================
Paul
2021-03-22 07:33:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Adam wrote:
> On 03/21/2021 04:36 PM, Paul wrote:
>
>> What does /etc/mtab say for the mount ?
>> Is it "... -o ro" for read-only ?
>> Maybe it needs "sudo remount -o rw" type treatment.
>>
>> I thought a topic like this came up recently,
>> something that was mounting read-only.
>>
>> Paul
>
> Just the two (2) partitions for the USB stick clone...
>
> /dev/sda1 /media/ubuntu/RALLY2 vfat
> ro,nosuid,nodev,relatime,uid=999,gid=999,fmask=0022,dmask=0022,codepage=437,iocharset=iso8859-1,shortname=mixed,showexec,utf8,flush,errors=remount-ro
> 0 0
> /dev/sda2 /media/ubuntu/SPBLAZE64GB vfat
> rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,uid=999,gid=999,fmask=0022,dmask=0022,codepage=437,iocharset=iso8859-1,shortname=mixed,showexec,utf8,flush,errors=remount-ro
> 0 0
>
> Looks like the clone inherited the lock for the entire USB stick. I
> created /dev/sda2 partition thinking that I'll copy the files over but
> that inherits the lock too.

The documentation isn't very good in any case.

Linux:
blockdev, hdpart

Windows
diskpart

*******

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/administration/windows-commands/attributes-volume


diskpart

select volume X
attributes volume clear readonly
attributes volume set readonly

But part of what the Windows one is doing, is reflected
in a registry entry, which means when the storage device
is unplugged and moved, the attribute doesn't travel with it.
That suggests diskpart won't be the repair tool to use.

Linux has a couple. The stick is likely to need removal
and reinsertion, for any successful change to be re-parsed
and used by the OS.

https://serverfault.com/questions/678008/ubuntu-remount-a-root-mount-thats-changed-to-ro-as-rw-without-rebooting

hdparm -r0 /dev/sd???
blockdev -setrw /dev/sd???

These imply some sort of hardware level change. I can
find comments that an attribute may apply to the whole
device, so if you applied to /dev/sda1, it would apply
to the whole device /dev/sda. Suggesting it is stored
somewhere in the MBR.

But the level of documentation always seems to be the
same on utilities at this level

1) Terse manpage - in other words "if you don't know what
you're doing, we're not going to help you".
2) No traceability - never a description of what hardware
bits or bytes are being modified. Almost as if the
developers don't know what they're doing.
3) Polite request in bugtracker to fix fucking documentation,
add note to manual page that OPs apply to MBR and not
to partition, cheerfully ignored.

This is almost as bad as the "dirty bit" on Windows file
systems indicating they need to be checked. For the longest
while (years!) you could have a volume that kept getting
CHKDSK automatically at startup. An autochk (that always
runs), sniffs the "dirty bit" and starts a CHKDSK, then
CHKDSK doesn't clear the "dirty bit" and the charade starts
all over again on next reboot. Eventually, somebody figured
it out, because Linux started setting the dirty bit from gparted,
telling Windows to take a bash at it, after a gparted run
had made changes.

I don't know where else to look for documentation on this.
As long as I see reports from users that they're trying
hdparm or blockdev at partition (/dev/sda1) or device (/dev/sda)
level and things aren't improving, I'm left to wonder how
this really works.

There's the possibility of a slide switch, and perhaps
USB config space can report the position of any such switch.
But this behavior also smacks of something being written
into an MBR (or a PBR). But without documentation, we'll
never know. The Wikipedia entry for MBR doesn't have
any storage feature which is an exact match, just a copy
protect byte (not the same thing).

We had a flash device at work, and it had some sort of
per-page readonly status bit that could be set. The people
doing bringup on my processor board, managed to "spray"
the flash with read-only (the odd page was read-only,
others remained read-write), but they managed to figure
out how to restore full operation (somehow). That's just
an example of documentation at work. We know the devices
have some mechanism, because the "top" and "bottom" blocks
had a special status and could be made "persistent" and
readonly, so the bootstrap would never be lost. This
allows recovery of the device and makes it non-brickable.

Paul
Adam
2021-03-22 18:26:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 03/22/2021 12:33 AM, Paul wrote:
> Adam wrote:
>> On 03/21/2021 04:36 PM, Paul wrote:
>>
>>> What does /etc/mtab say for the mount ?
>>> Is it "... -o ro" for read-only ?
>>> Maybe it needs "sudo remount -o rw" type treatment.
>>>
>>> I thought a topic like this came up recently,
>>> something that was mounting read-only.
>>>
>>> Paul
>>
>> Just the two (2) partitions for the USB stick clone...
>>
>> /dev/sda1 /media/ubuntu/RALLY2 vfat ro,nosuid,nodev,relatime,uid=999,gid=999,fmask=0022,dmask=0022,codepage=437,iocharset=iso8859-1,shortname=mixed,showexec,utf8,flush,errors=remount-ro 0 0
>> /dev/sda2 /media/ubuntu/SPBLAZE64GB vfat rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,uid=999,gid=999,fmask=0022,dmask=0022,codepage=437,iocharset=iso8859-1,shortname=mixed,showexec,utf8,flush,errors=remount-ro 0 0
>>
>> Looks like the clone inherited the lock for the entire USB stick. I created /dev/sda2 partition thinking that I'll copy the files over but that inherits the lock too.
>
> The documentation isn't very good in any case.
>
> Linux:
> blockdev, hdparm
>
> Windows
> diskpart
>
> *******
>
> https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/administration/windows-commands/attributes-volume
>
>
> diskpart
>
> select volume X
> attributes volume clear readonly
> attributes volume set readonly
>
> But part of what the Windows one is doing, is reflected
> in a registry entry, which means when the storage device
> is unplugged and moved, the attribute doesn't travel with it.
> That suggests diskpart won't be the repair tool to use.
>
> Linux has a couple. The stick is likely to need removal
> and reinsertion, for any successful change to be re-parsed
> and used by the OS.
>
> https://serverfault.com/questions/678008/ubuntu-remount-a-root-mount-thats-changed-to-ro-as-rw-without-rebooting
>
> hdparm -r0 /dev/sd???
> blockdev -setrw /dev/sd???
>

Thanks, Guru Paul !!

Sounds more like a safety feature rather than a defective USB stick ?
Probably a good idea.

How to disable write access to USB devices using “hdparm” tool
https://www.thegeekdiary.com/how-to-disable-write-access-to-usb-devices-using-hdparm-tool/
["Re-enabling write access" section]

May try getting data out via data CD using Brasero.


> These imply some sort of hardware level change. I can
> find comments that an attribute may apply to the whole
> device, so if you applied to /dev/sda1, it would apply
> to the whole device /dev/sda. Suggesting it is stored
> somewhere in the MBR.
>
> But the level of documentation always seems to be the
> same on utilities at this level
>
> 1) Terse manpage - in other words "if you don't know what
> you're doing, we're not going to help you".
> 2) No traceability - never a description of what hardware
> bits or bytes are being modified. Almost as if the
> developers don't know what they're doing.
> 3) Polite request in bugtracker to fix fucking documentation,
> add note to manual page that OPs apply to MBR and not
> to partition, cheerfully ignored.
>
> This is almost as bad as the "dirty bit" on Windows file
> systems indicating they need to be checked. For the longest
> while (years!) you could have a volume that kept getting
> CHKDSK automatically at startup. An autochk (that always
> runs), sniffs the "dirty bit" and starts a CHKDSK, then
> CHKDSK doesn't clear the "dirty bit" and the charade starts
> all over again on next reboot. Eventually, somebody figured
> it out, because Linux started setting the dirty bit from gparted,
> telling Windows to take a bash at it, after a gparted run
> had made changes.
>
> I don't know where else to look for documentation on this.
> As long as I see reports from users that they're trying
> hdparm or blockdev at partition (/dev/sda1) or device (/dev/sda)
> level and things aren't improving, I'm left to wonder how
> this really works.
>
> There's the possibility of a slide switch, and perhaps
> USB config space can report the position of any such switch.
> But this behavior also smacks of something being written
> into an MBR (or a PBR). But without documentation, we'll
> never know. The Wikipedia entry for MBR doesn't have
> any storage feature which is an exact match, just a copy
> protect byte (not the same thing).
>
> We had a flash device at work, and it had some sort of
> per-page readonly status bit that could be set. The people
> doing bringup on my processor board, managed to "spray"
> the flash with read-only (the odd page was read-only,
> others remained read-write), but they managed to figure
> out how to restore full operation (somehow). That's just
> an example of documentation at work. We know the devices
> have some mechanism, because the "top" and "bottom" blocks
> had a special status and could be made "persistent" and
> readonly, so the bootstrap would never be lost. This
> allows recovery of the device and makes it non-brickable.
>
> Paul
Adam
2021-03-21 22:46:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 03/21/2021 02:43 PM, Adam wrote:
> On 03/21/2021 10:27 AM, Jonathan N. Little wrote:
>> Adam wrote:
>>>
>>> The USB stick has become read-only. I can still read old files that
>>> were written before the USB stick lost write capability.useful info
>>
>> Some USB sticks become read-only when failing to protect existing data.
>> Sandisk is on brand that has such feature. My guess is your Rally2 USB
>> stick "pining for the fjords" like an infamous parrot.
>>
>
> Guess it's about time since it was purchased before the following May 2012 purchase...
>
> https://i.postimg.cc/hPFfhnGG/OCZ-Mod-XStream-Pro-600-W-Modular-High-Performance-Power-Supply.png
>
> First OCZ product I purchased was...
>
> OCZ Rally2 16GB USB 2.0 Flash Drive Model OCZUSBR2DC-16GB
> https://www.newegg.com/model-oczusbr2dc-16gb/p/N82E16820227272
>
> but I can't locate purchase order for date info.
>
>
> Hmmm...wonder if I could burn "Taxes - Current" folder to a data disc.
> Don't want to risk losing another USB stick just in case.
>
> Cloned the bad USB stick. How to unlock ? Searched but no luck.

GParted has a little key icon on my Ubuntu partition so I can not resize it
https://askubuntu.com/questions/473478/gparted-has-a-little-key-icon-on-my-ubuntu-partition-so-i-can-not-resize-it

For USB stick, selecting "Unmount" doesn't work. GParted crashes.
Jonathan N. Little
2021-03-20 13:12:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Dirk T. Verbeek wrote:
> Op 20-03-2021 om 03:02 schreef Adam:
>> On 03/19/2021 06:11 PM, azigni wrote:
>>> I think you are hearing your cooling fan kick into high gear
>>>
>>
>> Thanks, is it normal for the cooling fan to kick into
>> high gear after starting the laptop for only minutes (~15) ?
>> I've been shutting down the laptop for fear that
>> it'll completely fail before I get all data from it.
>>
>> I've been powering it on only when absolutely necessary.
>>
> Install something to measure and display the CPU temperature.

Interesting review of N550JV in the bad column "interior gets very hot
when pushed; " so I would hazard a guess that it is the fan and that the
thermal design for that laptop is not very good. I had a Del Latitude
D820 with nVidia GPU that was a good lap-toaster because Dell only put
one fan in that model when it really needed two.

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
Adam
2021-03-20 13:39:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 03/20/2021 06:12 AM, Jonathan N. Little wrote:
> Dirk T. Verbeek wrote:
>> Op 20-03-2021 om 03:02 schreef Adam:
>>> On 03/19/2021 06:11 PM, azigni wrote:
>>>> I think you are hearing your cooling fan kick into high gear
>>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks, is it normal for the cooling fan to kick into
>>> high gear after starting the laptop for only minutes (~15) ?
>>> I've been shutting down the laptop for fear that
>>> it'll completely fail before I get all data from it.
>>>
>>> I've been powering it on only when absolutely necessary.
>>>
>> Install something to measure and display the CPU temperature.
>
> Interesting review of N550JV in the bad column "interior gets very hot
> when pushed; " so I would hazard a guess that it is the fan and that the
> thermal design for that laptop is not very good. I had a Del Latitude
> D820 with nVidia GPU that was a good lap-toaster because Dell only put
> one fan in that model when it really needed two.
>

Good thing the N550JX laptop has an Intel i7, which automatically shuts OFF if it gets too hot.
Hope I'm right about this. The laptop has not shut itself off yet.
Paul
2021-03-20 14:16:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Adam wrote:
> On 03/20/2021 06:12 AM, Jonathan N. Little wrote:
>> Dirk T. Verbeek wrote:
>>> Op 20-03-2021 om 03:02 schreef Adam:
>>>> On 03/19/2021 06:11 PM, azigni wrote:
>>>>> I think you are hearing your cooling fan kick into high gear
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks, is it normal for the cooling fan to kick into
>>>> high gear after starting the laptop for only minutes (~15) ?
>>>> I've been shutting down the laptop for fear that
>>>> it'll completely fail before I get all data from it.
>>>>
>>>> I've been powering it on only when absolutely necessary.
>>>>
>>> Install something to measure and display the CPU temperature.
>>
>> Interesting review of N550JV in the bad column "interior gets very hot
>> when pushed; " so I would hazard a guess that it is the fan and that the
>> thermal design for that laptop is not very good. I had a Del Latitude
>> D820 with nVidia GPU that was a good lap-toaster because Dell only put
>> one fan in that model when it really needed two.
>>
>
> Good thing the N550JX laptop has an Intel i7, which automatically shuts
> OFF if it gets too hot.
> Hope I'm right about this. The laptop has not shut itself off yet.
>

That one has two fans.

http://www.partsinthebox.com/servers-pc-parts/laptop-parts/laptop-motherboard/motherboard-for-asus-n550jx-intel-i7-4720hq-60nb0860-mb1b10.html

CPU: Intel Core i7-4720HQ
GPU: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 950M (2GB DDR3)

The Intel processor has a GPU inside it.

Processor Graphics

Processor Graphics Intel HD Graphics 4600

So that would be a Bumblebee setup, when the
software loads.

The Intel GPU drives the LVDS cable
to the panel. When playing games, the NVidia GPU
copies the frame buffer somewhere, where the
4600 can play back the scan lines to the LVDS cable.
That might use 1GB/sec of main memory bandwidth,
for a shared memory that both the 950M and 4600
can see from a DMA perspective. The 2GB of private
memory the NVidia uses, is much faster than that.
So is the system memory. Faster.

Paul
Adam
2021-03-20 16:26:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 03/20/2021 07:16 AM, Paul wrote:
> Adam wrote:
>> On 03/20/2021 06:12 AM, Jonathan N. Little wrote:
>>> Dirk T. Verbeek wrote:
>>>> Op 20-03-2021 om 03:02 schreef Adam:
>>>>> On 03/19/2021 06:11 PM, azigni wrote:
>>>>>> I think you are hearing your cooling fan kick into high gear
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks, is it normal for the cooling fan to kick into
>>>>> high gear after starting the laptop for only minutes (~15) ?
>>>>> I've been shutting down the laptop for fear that
>>>>> it'll completely fail before I get all data from it.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've been powering it on only when absolutely necessary.
>>>>>
>>>> Install something to measure and display the CPU temperature.
>>>
>>> Interesting review of N550JV in the bad column "interior gets very hot
>>> when pushed; " so I would hazard a guess that it is the fan and that the
>>> thermal design for that laptop is not very good. I had a Del Latitude
>>> D820 with nVidia GPU that was a good lap-toaster because Dell only put
>>> one fan in that model when it really needed two.
>>>
>>
>> Good thing the N550JX laptop has an Intel i7, which automatically shuts OFF if it gets too hot.
>> Hope I'm right about this. The laptop has not shut itself off yet.
>>
>
> That one has two fans.
>
> http://www.partsinthebox.com/servers-pc-parts/laptop-parts/laptop-motherboard/motherboard-for-asus-n550jx-intel-i7-4720hq-60nb0860-mb1b10.html
>
> CPU: Intel Core i7-4720HQ
> GPU: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 950M (2GB DDR3)
>
> The Intel processor has a GPU inside it.
>
> Processor Graphics
>
> Processor Graphics Intel HD Graphics 4600
>
> So that would be a Bumblebee setup, when the
> software loads.
>
> The Intel GPU drives the LVDS cable
> to the panel. When playing games, the NVidia GPU
> copies the frame buffer somewhere, where the
> 4600 can play back the scan lines to the LVDS cable.
> That might use 1GB/sec of main memory bandwidth,
> for a shared memory that both the 950M and 4600
> can see from a DMA perspective. The 2GB of private
> memory the NVidia uses, is much faster than that.
> So is the system memory. Faster.
>
> Paul

Oh no, sorry, I goofed !! Getting my laptops all mixed up. OMG !!

This is the noisy old laptop...

ASUS N61JQ-X1 16-Inch Laptop (1.6 GHz Intel Core i7-720QM Quad-Core Processor)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00352LQZS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Paul
2021-03-20 17:38:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Adam wrote:
> On 03/20/2021 07:16 AM, Paul wrote:
>> Adam wrote:
>>> On 03/20/2021 06:12 AM, Jonathan N. Little wrote:
>>>> Dirk T. Verbeek wrote:
>>>>> Op 20-03-2021 om 03:02 schreef Adam:
>>>>>> On 03/19/2021 06:11 PM, azigni wrote:
>>>>>>> I think you are hearing your cooling fan kick into high gear
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks, is it normal for the cooling fan to kick into
>>>>>> high gear after starting the laptop for only minutes (~15) ?
>>>>>> I've been shutting down the laptop for fear that
>>>>>> it'll completely fail before I get all data from it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've been powering it on only when absolutely necessary.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Install something to measure and display the CPU temperature.
>>>>
>>>> Interesting review of N550JV in the bad column "interior gets very hot
>>>> when pushed; " so I would hazard a guess that it is the fan and that
>>>> the
>>>> thermal design for that laptop is not very good. I had a Del Latitude
>>>> D820 with nVidia GPU that was a good lap-toaster because Dell only put
>>>> one fan in that model when it really needed two.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Good thing the N550JX laptop has an Intel i7, which automatically
>>> shuts OFF if it gets too hot.
>>> Hope I'm right about this. The laptop has not shut itself off yet.
>>>
>>
>> That one has two fans.
>>
>> http://www.partsinthebox.com/servers-pc-parts/laptop-parts/laptop-motherboard/motherboard-for-asus-n550jx-intel-i7-4720hq-60nb0860-mb1b10.html
>>
>>
>> CPU: Intel Core i7-4720HQ
>> GPU: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 950M (2GB DDR3)
>>
>> The Intel processor has a GPU inside it.
>>
>> Processor Graphics
>>
>> Processor Graphics Intel HD Graphics 4600
>>
>> So that would be a Bumblebee setup, when the
>> software loads.
>>
>> The Intel GPU drives the LVDS cable
>> to the panel. When playing games, the NVidia GPU
>> copies the frame buffer somewhere, where the
>> 4600 can play back the scan lines to the LVDS cable.
>> That might use 1GB/sec of main memory bandwidth,
>> for a shared memory that both the 950M and 4600
>> can see from a DMA perspective. The 2GB of private
>> memory the NVidia uses, is much faster than that.
>> So is the system memory. Faster.
>>
>> Paul
>
> Oh no, sorry, I goofed !! Getting my laptops all mixed up. OMG !!
>
> This is the noisy old laptop...
>
> ASUS N61JQ-X1 16-Inch Laptop (1.6 GHz Intel Core i7-720QM Quad-Core
> Processor)
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00352LQZS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

That's a 26W GPU and a 45W CPU.

71W for one fan ? Might be a bit noisy.

*******

https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/mobility-radeon-hd-5730.c1649

"Features 400 shading units, 20 texture mapping units, and 8 ROPs.
ATI has paired 1GB GDDR3 memory with the Mobility Radeon HD 5730,
which are connected using a 128-bit memory interface. The GPU is
operating at a frequency of 650 MHz, memory is running at 800 MHz.

This device has no display connectivity, as it is not designed to
have monitors connected to it. Rather it is intended for use in
laptop/notebooks and will use the output of the host mobile device."

The HM55 has FDI in and LVDS out, and can drive the panel. But
the CPU has no GPU in it, and it's a mystery how the HM55 is getting
an FDI bus connection. There must be some option in the CPU for
an FDI signal to take the place of the missing one. The TechPowerup
description doesn't mention the 5730 having a means to solve
the problem.

Paul
Adam
2021-03-20 18:28:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 03/20/2021 10:38 AM, Paul wrote:
> Adam wrote:
>> On 03/20/2021 07:16 AM, Paul wrote:
>>> Adam wrote:
>>>> On 03/20/2021 06:12 AM, Jonathan N. Little wrote:
>>>>> Dirk T. Verbeek wrote:
>>>>>> Op 20-03-2021 om 03:02 schreef Adam:
>>>>>>> On 03/19/2021 06:11 PM, azigni wrote:
>>>>>>>> I think you are hearing your cooling fan kick into high gear
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks, is it normal for the cooling fan to kick into
>>>>>>> high gear after starting the laptop for only minutes (~15) ?
>>>>>>> I've been shutting down the laptop for fear that
>>>>>>> it'll completely fail before I get all data from it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've been powering it on only when absolutely necessary.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Install something to measure and display the CPU temperature.
>>>>>
>>>>> Interesting review of N550JV in the bad column "interior gets very hot
>>>>> when pushed; " so I would hazard a guess that it is the fan and that the
>>>>> thermal design for that laptop is not very good. I had a Del Latitude
>>>>> D820 with nVidia GPU that was a good lap-toaster because Dell only put
>>>>> one fan in that model when it really needed two.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Good thing the N550JX laptop has an Intel i7, which automatically shuts OFF if it gets too hot.
>>>> Hope I'm right about this. The laptop has not shut itself off yet.
>>>>
>>>
>>> That one has two fans.
>>>
>>> http://www.partsinthebox.com/servers-pc-parts/laptop-parts/laptop-motherboard/motherboard-for-asus-n550jx-intel-i7-4720hq-60nb0860-mb1b10.html
>>>
>>> CPU: Intel Core i7-4720HQ
>>> GPU: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 950M (2GB DDR3)
>>>
>>> The Intel processor has a GPU inside it.
>>>
>>> Processor Graphics
>>>
>>> Processor Graphics Intel HD Graphics 4600
>>>
>>> So that would be a Bumblebee setup, when the
>>> software loads.
>>>
>>> The Intel GPU drives the LVDS cable
>>> to the panel. When playing games, the NVidia GPU
>>> copies the frame buffer somewhere, where the
>>> 4600 can play back the scan lines to the LVDS cable.
>>> That might use 1GB/sec of main memory bandwidth,
>>> for a shared memory that both the 950M and 4600
>>> can see from a DMA perspective. The 2GB of private
>>> memory the NVidia uses, is much faster than that.
>>> So is the system memory. Faster.
>>>
>>> Paul
>>
>> Oh no, sorry, I goofed !! Getting my laptops all mixed up. OMG !!
>>
>> This is the noisy old laptop...
>>
>> ASUS N61JQ-X1 16-Inch Laptop (1.6 GHz Intel Core i7-720QM Quad-Core Processor)
>> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00352LQZS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
>
> That's a 26W GPU and a 45W CPU.
>
> 71W for one fan ? Might be a bit noisy.
>

It's been running many years without the noise that I now hear.


> *******
>
> https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/mobility-radeon-hd-5730.c1649
>
> "Features 400 shading units, 20 texture mapping units, and 8 ROPs.
> ATI has paired 1GB GDDR3 memory with the Mobility Radeon HD 5730,
> which are connected using a 128-bit memory interface. The GPU is
> operating at a frequency of 650 MHz, memory is running at 800 MHz.
>
> This device has no display connectivity, as it is not designed to
> have monitors connected to it. Rather it is intended for use in
> laptop/notebooks and will use the output of the host mobile device."
>
> The HM55 has FDI in and LVDS out, and can drive the panel. But
> the CPU has no GPU in it, and it's a mystery how the HM55 is getting
> an FDI bus connection. There must be some option in the CPU for
> an FDI signal to take the place of the missing one. The TechPowerup
> description doesn't mention the 5730 having a means to solve
> the problem.
>
> Paul

Yes, the ATI Mobility Radeon GPU is separate from the Intel i7-720QM CPU.
Adam
2021-03-20 19:19:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 03/20/2021 11:28 AM, Adam wrote:
> On 03/20/2021 10:38 AM, Paul wrote:
>> Adam wrote:
>>> On 03/20/2021 07:16 AM, Paul wrote:
>>>> Adam wrote:
>>>>> On 03/20/2021 06:12 AM, Jonathan N. Little wrote:
>>>>>> Dirk T. Verbeek wrote:
>>>>>>> Op 20-03-2021 om 03:02 schreef Adam:
>>>>>>>> On 03/19/2021 06:11 PM, azigni wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I think you are hearing your cooling fan kick into high gear
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks, is it normal for the cooling fan to kick into
>>>>>>>> high gear after starting the laptop for only minutes (~15) ?
>>>>>>>> I've been shutting down the laptop for fear that
>>>>>>>> it'll completely fail before I get all data from it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've been powering it on only when absolutely necessary.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Install something to measure and display the CPU temperature.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Interesting review of N550JV in the bad column "interior gets very hot
>>>>>> when pushed; " so I would hazard a guess that it is the fan and that the
>>>>>> thermal design for that laptop is not very good. I had a Del Latitude
>>>>>> D820 with nVidia GPU that was a good lap-toaster because Dell only put
>>>>>> one fan in that model when it really needed two.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Good thing the N550JX laptop has an Intel i7, which automatically shuts OFF if it gets too hot.
>>>>> Hope I'm right about this. The laptop has not shut itself off yet.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That one has two fans.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.partsinthebox.com/servers-pc-parts/laptop-parts/laptop-motherboard/motherboard-for-asus-n550jx-intel-i7-4720hq-60nb0860-mb1b10.html
>>>>
>>>> CPU: Intel Core i7-4720HQ
>>>> GPU: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 950M (2GB DDR3)
>>>>
>>>> The Intel processor has a GPU inside it.
>>>>
>>>> Processor Graphics
>>>>
>>>> Processor Graphics Intel HD Graphics 4600
>>>>
>>>> So that would be a Bumblebee setup, when the
>>>> software loads.
>>>>
>>>> The Intel GPU drives the LVDS cable
>>>> to the panel. When playing games, the NVidia GPU
>>>> copies the frame buffer somewhere, where the
>>>> 4600 can play back the scan lines to the LVDS cable.
>>>> That might use 1GB/sec of main memory bandwidth,
>>>> for a shared memory that both the 950M and 4600
>>>> can see from a DMA perspective. The 2GB of private
>>>> memory the NVidia uses, is much faster than that.
>>>> So is the system memory. Faster.
>>>>
>>>> Paul
>>>
>>> Oh no, sorry, I goofed !! Getting my laptops all mixed up. OMG !!
>>>
>>> This is the noisy old laptop...
>>>
>>> ASUS N61JQ-X1 16-Inch Laptop (1.6 GHz Intel Core i7-720QM Quad-Core Processor)
>>> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00352LQZS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
>>
>> That's a 26W GPU and a 45W CPU.
>>
>> 71W for one fan ? Might be a bit noisy.
>>
>
> It's been running many years without the noise that I now hear.
>
>
>> *******
>>
>> https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/mobility-radeon-hd-5730.c1649
>>
>> "Features 400 shading units, 20 texture mapping units, and 8 ROPs.
>> ATI has paired 1GB GDDR3 memory with the Mobility Radeon HD 5730,
>> which are connected using a 128-bit memory interface. The GPU is
>> operating at a frequency of 650 MHz, memory is running at 800 MHz.
>>
>> This device has no display connectivity, as it is not designed to
>> have monitors connected to it. Rather it is intended for use in
>> laptop/notebooks and will use the output of the host mobile device."
>>
>> The HM55 has FDI in and LVDS out, and can drive the panel. But
>> the CPU has no GPU in it, and it's a mystery how the HM55 is getting
>> an FDI bus connection. There must be some option in the CPU for
>> an FDI signal to take the place of the missing one. The TechPowerup
>> description doesn't mention the 5730 having a means to solve
>> the problem.
>>
>> Paul
>
> Yes, the ATI Mobility Radeon GPU is separate from the Intel i7-720QM CPU.
>

The noise I hear does not sound normal (like a fan, even in high gear).
The noise comes on even when I'm in the BIOS.
Wes Newell
2021-03-20 22:34:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 3/20/21 2:19 PM, Adam wrote:
> The noise I hear does not sound normal (like a fan, even in high gear).
> The noise comes on even when I'm in the BIOS.
>
May be dry bearings/sleeve of fan. peel off fan cover and put in a drop
of light weight fine oil. May also be vibration of loose fan mounts.

--
http://wesnewell.ddns.net
https://github.com/wesnewell/Functionality
Adam
2021-04-01 01:35:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 03/20/2021 03:02 AM, Dirk T. Verbeek wrote:
> Op 20-03-2021 om 03:02 schreef Adam:
>> On 03/19/2021 06:11 PM, azigni wrote:
>>> I think you are hearing your cooling fan kick into high gear
>>>
>>
>> Thanks, is it normal for the cooling fan to kick into
>> high gear after starting the laptop for only minutes (~15) ?
>> I've been shutting down the laptop for fear that
>> it'll completely fail before I get all data from it.
>>
>> I've been powering it on only when absolutely necessary.
>>
> Install something to measure and display the CPU temperature.
>

GKrellM shows CPU temperature is ~72.0 C.
https://i.postimg.cc/FzfqqxHN/Screenshot-gkrellm.png

Tried to open Thunderbird in old Ubuntu laptop to send image link (above).
Temperature shot up to ~100.0 C. Thunderbird can be such a CPU hog.
Got nervous. Killed Thunderbird from System Monitor.
Old Ubuntu laptop survived it though.

Turned ON the old Ubuntu laptop (without the optical drive) with the bottom panel OFF.
Can see fan spins fine but may be old and cranky. How difficult to replace the fan ?
Will disable optical drive in BIOS to take load off.
Will retire old OCZ Rally2 USB thumb drive.

As a test, old Ubuntu laptop downloaded large 1.6 GB Ubuntu ISO file.
Can't verify because the <blah>SUMS are for an older revision.
File size looks about right though.
Paul
2021-04-01 09:13:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Adam wrote:
> On 03/20/2021 03:02 AM, Dirk T. Verbeek wrote:
>> Op 20-03-2021 om 03:02 schreef Adam:
>>> On 03/19/2021 06:11 PM, azigni wrote:
>>>> I think you are hearing your cooling fan kick into high gear
>>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks, is it normal for the cooling fan to kick into
>>> high gear after starting the laptop for only minutes (~15) ?
>>> I've been shutting down the laptop for fear that
>>> it'll completely fail before I get all data from it.
>>>
>>> I've been powering it on only when absolutely necessary.
>>>
>> Install something to measure and display the CPU temperature.
>>
>
> GKrellM shows CPU temperature is ~72.0 C.
> https://i.postimg.cc/FzfqqxHN/Screenshot-gkrellm.png
>
> Tried to open Thunderbird in old Ubuntu laptop to send image link (above).
> Temperature shot up to ~100.0 C. Thunderbird can be such a CPU hog.
> Got nervous. Killed Thunderbird from System Monitor.
> Old Ubuntu laptop survived it though.
>
> Turned ON the old Ubuntu laptop (without the optical drive) with the
> bottom panel OFF.
> Can see fan spins fine but may be old and cranky. How difficult to
> replace the fan ?
> Will disable optical drive in BIOS to take load off.
> Will retire old OCZ Rally2 USB thumb drive.
>
> As a test, old Ubuntu laptop downloaded large 1.6 GB Ubuntu ISO file.
> Can't verify because the <blah>SUMS are for an older revision.
> File size looks about right though.

72C is a bit high for an idle.

The 100C likely means the CPU is throttling at that point.
If your cooling system was completely broken, even throttling
would not bring down the temperature, and THERMTRIP would
turn off the machine at maybe 110-120C. 100C on the other hand,
is intended as the "peak long term temp". You can probably
run it that way for 100,000 hours (fan won't last that long).
The 100C is not a silicon limit, it's the limit of the
so-called "organic packaging" the CPU sits on. Back when
integrated circuits used ceramic packages, you could have had
the CPU run at 135C as the throttle point. But multilayer
ceramic packages are pretty expensive, and in the case of
modern CPUs, there wouldn't be enough contacts on the old
packages, to do a CPU. A lot of the electrical contacts
on a CPU, carry power, rather than signals.

Cooling failure:

1) Inlet or outlet vent blocked.
2) Fan rotation slower than normal
3) *No working fluid left in Heat Pipe*
4) Paste is bad (only a problem when end-users paste it)
5) Mount is no longer screwed down (unscrewed itself).
[Desktop plastic parts have snapped before.]

On a desktop, with six heatpipes in the cooling scheme,
you can lose a pipe (3) without anyone noticing. A laptop
on the other hand, typically does not have effective pipe
redundancy. A heatpipe which has lost the fluid,
does not cool very well at all.

When heat pipes came to the computer industry, initial
fabrication quality was poor. At least one product
arrived, with no working pipes (which means none of
the pipes had the two drops of fluid inside). This
gradually improved, as people stole the ideas for
sealing them. Today, you have a reasonable expectation,
of every pipe being in working condition.

The pressure inside a pipe doesn't have to be ambient.
A pipe could, on purpose, be at partial vacuum, or
could be up to a couple ATM, as this adjusts the
boiling point of the fluid. (No, it doesn't have to
boil to work, as the partial pressure of the gas
is sufficient to create thermal transport in the pipe.)

To repair a pipe, you'd find a replacement cooling
assembly from a junked machine. You should not use
an open flame near the pipe particularly, as the
working fluid can be a few drops of alcohol. While
water has been used in pipes, it's not the preferred
working fluid. An alcohol could have a slightly
lower freezing point, which might be a reason to
prefer it.

While we assume (most of the time), the problem is
(1) or (2), it could be (3) and that would be a lot
harder to diagnose.

CPUs where the silicon die is exposed, it's easier to
check that the paste is doing its job. On lidded
processors, sometimes the lid is not in good
thermal contact with the silicon. That's hard to
diagnose.

*******

You can pop a SHA1 into a Google search and see if any hits
come back. You might even find the page or file with the
SHA1 in it. When a Google search using a SHA1 returns no
hits, your download is bad :-)

You have to choose a checksum type, typical for the epoch.
Maybe a Ubuntu 8.04 CD would have used MD5 sums, in which
case you'd do an MD5 sum. Maybe a later DVD, the checksum
file used SHA1. Today, it might be SHA256 or even SHA512. The
method in the previous paragraph, assumes the operator knows
what epoch the media is from. Nobody would be using MD5
today for a "security" purpose, but an MD5 could still be
used as a download check. If you're worried about
"fraud" or someone planting media on a server, MD5 is
useless for that kind of issue.

Paul
Jonathan N. Little
2021-04-01 12:58:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Paul wrote:
>
> 1) Inlet or outlet vent blocked.
> 2) Fan rotation slower than normal
> 3) *No working fluid left in Heat Pipe*
> 4) Paste is bad (only a problem when end-users paste it)
> 5) Mount is no longer screwed down (unscrewed itself).
>    [Desktop plastic parts have snapped before.]

Missing one
6) Poor initial design for cooling. Example my old Dell Latitude D820
with nVidia GPU, and just about every Apple product that I have ever had
the "pleasure" to work with.

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
Dirk T. Verbeek
2021-04-01 16:30:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Op 01-04-2021 om 11:13 schreef Paul:
> Adam wrote:
>> On 03/20/2021 03:02 AM, Dirk T. Verbeek wrote:
>>> Op 20-03-2021 om 03:02 schreef Adam:
>>>> On 03/19/2021 06:11 PM, azigni wrote:
>>>>> I think you are hearing your cooling fan kick into high gear
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks, is it normal for the cooling fan to kick into
>>>> high gear after starting the laptop for only minutes (~15) ?
>>>> I've been shutting down the laptop for fear that
>>>> it'll completely fail before I get all data from it.
>>>>
>>>> I've been powering it on only when absolutely necessary.
>>>>
>>> Install something to measure and display the CPU temperature.
>>>
>>
>> GKrellM shows CPU temperature is ~72.0 C.
>> https://i.postimg.cc/FzfqqxHN/Screenshot-gkrellm.png
>>
>> Tried to open Thunderbird in old Ubuntu laptop to send image link
>> (above).
>> Temperature shot up to ~100.0 C.  Thunderbird can be such a CPU hog.
>> Got nervous.  Killed Thunderbird from System Monitor.
>> Old Ubuntu laptop survived it though.
>>
>> Turned ON the old Ubuntu laptop (without the optical drive) with the
>> bottom panel OFF.
>> Can see fan spins fine but may be old and cranky.  How difficult to
>> replace the fan ?
>> Will disable optical drive in BIOS to take load off.
>> Will retire old OCZ Rally2 USB thumb drive.
>>
>> As a test, old Ubuntu laptop downloaded large 1.6 GB Ubuntu ISO file.
>> Can't verify because the <blah>SUMS are for an older revision.
>> File size looks about right though.
>
> 72C is a bit high for an idle.

I have a Thinkpad i7-2760 W520, an old but really good laptop (in the
day the most powerful workstation in laptop form factor).
The nVidia Server settings app tells me the throttling temperature is
127 degC and with a second (4K) screen it is regularly idling at about
90 degC.
With just the build-in screen it idles at about 75 degC, nothing to
worry about.
This is with several programs like Firefox, Thunderbird, Signal and
VeraCrypt open.
Shutting down Firefox (with some 100 tabs) doesn't change anything.

>
> The 100C likely means the CPU is throttling at that point.
> If your cooling system was completely broken, even throttling
> would not bring down the temperature, and THERMTRIP would
> turn off the machine at maybe 110-120C. 100C on the other hand,
> is intended as the "peak long term temp". You can probably
> run it that way for 100,000 hours (fan won't last that long).
> The 100C is not a silicon limit, it's the limit of the
> so-called "organic packaging" the CPU sits on. Back when
> integrated circuits used ceramic packages, you could have had
> the CPU run at 135C as the throttle point. But multilayer
> ceramic packages are pretty expensive, and in the case of
> modern CPUs, there wouldn't be enough contacts on the old
> packages, to do a CPU. A lot of the electrical contacts
> on a CPU, carry power, rather than signals.
>
> Cooling failure:
>
> 1) Inlet or outlet vent blocked.
> 2) Fan rotation slower than normal
> 3) *No working fluid left in Heat Pipe*
> 4) Paste is bad (only a problem when end-users paste it)
> 5) Mount is no longer screwed down (unscrewed itself).
>    [Desktop plastic parts have snapped before.]
>
> On a desktop, with six heatpipes in the cooling scheme,
> you can lose a pipe (3) without anyone noticing. A laptop
> on the other hand, typically does not have effective pipe
> redundancy. A heatpipe which has lost the fluid,
> does not cool very well at all.
>
> When heat pipes came to the computer industry, initial
> fabrication quality was poor. At least one product
> arrived, with no working pipes (which means none of
> the pipes had the two drops of fluid inside). This
> gradually improved, as people stole the ideas for
> sealing them. Today, you have a reasonable expectation,
> of every pipe being in working condition.
>
> The pressure inside a pipe doesn't have to be ambient.
> A pipe could, on purpose, be at partial vacuum, or
> could be up to a couple ATM, as this adjusts the
> boiling point of the fluid. (No, it doesn't have to
> boil to work, as the partial pressure of the gas
> is sufficient to create thermal transport in the pipe.)
>
> To repair a pipe, you'd find a replacement cooling
> assembly from a junked machine. You should not use
> an open flame near the pipe particularly, as the
> working fluid can be a few drops of alcohol. While
> water has been used in pipes, it's not the preferred
> working fluid. An alcohol could have a slightly
> lower freezing point, which might be a reason to
> prefer it.
>
> While we assume (most of the time), the problem is
> (1) or (2), it could be (3) and that would be a lot
> harder to diagnose.
>
> CPUs where the silicon die is exposed, it's easier to
> check that the paste is doing its job. On lidded
> processors, sometimes the lid is not in good
> thermal contact with the silicon. That's hard to
> diagnose.
>
> *******
>
> You can pop a SHA1 into a Google search and see if any hits
> come back. You might even find the page or file with the
> SHA1 in it. When a Google search using a SHA1 returns no
> hits, your download is bad :-)
>
> You have to choose a checksum type, typical for the epoch.
> Maybe a Ubuntu 8.04 CD would have used MD5 sums, in which
> case you'd do an MD5 sum. Maybe a later DVD, the checksum
> file used SHA1. Today, it might be SHA256 or even SHA512. The
> method in the previous paragraph, assumes the operator knows
> what epoch the media is from. Nobody would be using MD5
> today for a "security" purpose, but an MD5 could still be
> used as a download check. If you're worried about
> "fraud" or someone planting media on a server, MD5 is
> useless for that kind of issue.
>
>    Paul
Adam
2021-04-01 16:52:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 04/01/2021 02:13 AM, Paul wrote:
> Adam wrote:
>> On 03/20/2021 03:02 AM, Dirk T. Verbeek wrote:
>>> Op 20-03-2021 om 03:02 schreef Adam:
>>>> On 03/19/2021 06:11 PM, azigni wrote:
>>>>> I think you are hearing your cooling fan kick into high gear
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks, is it normal for the cooling fan to kick into
>>>> high gear after starting the laptop for only minutes (~15) ?
>>>> I've been shutting down the laptop for fear that
>>>> it'll completely fail before I get all data from it.
>>>>
>>>> I've been powering it on only when absolutely necessary.
>>>>
>>> Install something to measure and display the CPU temperature.
>>>
>>
>> GKrellM shows CPU temperature is ~72.0 C.
>> https://i.postimg.cc/FzfqqxHN/Screenshot-gkrellm.png
>>
>> Tried to open Thunderbird in old Ubuntu laptop to send image link (above).
>> Temperature shot up to ~100.0 C. Thunderbird can be such a CPU hog.
>> Got nervous. Killed Thunderbird from System Monitor.
>> Old Ubuntu laptop survived it though.
>>
>> Turned ON the old Ubuntu laptop (without the optical drive) with the bottom panel OFF.
>> Can see fan spins fine but may be old and cranky. How difficult to replace the fan ?
>> Will disable optical drive in BIOS to take load off.
>> Will retire old OCZ Rally2 USB thumb drive.
>>
>> As a test, old Ubuntu laptop downloaded large 1.6 GB Ubuntu ISO file.
>> Can't verify because the <blah>SUMS are for an older revision.
>> File size looks about right though.
>
> 72C is a bit high for an idle.
>

At idle after closing ALL apps except GKrellM,
I've seen it go as low as ~62.0 C.
I have not seen it go below that.

That noise comes and goes (even after completely removing the optical drive).
It had a good day yesterday.

For ubuntu-16.04.7-desktop-amd64.iso,
sha1sum generated is...
65fe391dd30949d62b381cdf12809f865f18d4d3

Doesn't seem like many people download that revision,
especially if the <>SUMS posted is for
ubuntu-16.04.6-desktop-amd64.iso


> The 100C likely means the CPU is throttling at that point.
> If your cooling system was completely broken, even throttling
> would not bring down the temperature, and THERMTRIP would
> turn off the machine at maybe 110-120C. 100C on the other hand,
> is intended as the "peak long term temp". You can probably
> run it that way for 100,000 hours (fan won't last that long).
> The 100C is not a silicon limit, it's the limit of the
> so-called "organic packaging" the CPU sits on. Back when
> integrated circuits used ceramic packages, you could have had
> the CPU run at 135C as the throttle point. But multilayer
> ceramic packages are pretty expensive, and in the case of
> modern CPUs, there wouldn't be enough contacts on the old
> packages, to do a CPU. A lot of the electrical contacts
> on a CPU, carry power, rather than signals.
>
> Cooling failure:
>
> 1) Inlet or outlet vent blocked.
> 2) Fan rotation slower than normal
> 3) *No working fluid left in Heat Pipe*
> 4) Paste is bad (only a problem when end-users paste it)
> 5) Mount is no longer screwed down (unscrewed itself).
> [Desktop plastic parts have snapped before.]
>

Blew more compressed air around fan area and
around the CPU/GPU and cooling pipes.

Tightened down ALL screws, none seems to be loose inside.


> On a desktop, with six heatpipes in the cooling scheme,
> you can lose a pipe (3) without anyone noticing. A laptop
> on the other hand, typically does not have effective pipe
> redundancy. A heatpipe which has lost the fluid,
> does not cool very well at all.
>
> When heat pipes came to the computer industry, initial
> fabrication quality was poor. At least one product
> arrived, with no working pipes (which means none of
> the pipes had the two drops of fluid inside). This
> gradually improved, as people stole the ideas for
> sealing them. Today, you have a reasonable expectation,
> of every pipe being in working condition.
>
> The pressure inside a pipe doesn't have to be ambient.
> A pipe could, on purpose, be at partial vacuum, or
> could be up to a couple ATM, as this adjusts the
> boiling point of the fluid. (No, it doesn't have to
> boil to work, as the partial pressure of the gas
> is sufficient to create thermal transport in the pipe.)
>
> To repair a pipe, you'd find a replacement cooling
> assembly from a junked machine. You should not use
> an open flame near the pipe particularly, as the
> working fluid can be a few drops of alcohol. While
> water has been used in pipes, it's not the preferred
> working fluid. An alcohol could have a slightly
> lower freezing point, which might be a reason to
> prefer it.
>
> While we assume (most of the time), the problem is
> (1) or (2), it could be (3) and that would be a lot
> harder to diagnose.
>
> CPUs where the silicon die is exposed, it's easier to
> check that the paste is doing its job. On lidded
> processors, sometimes the lid is not in good
> thermal contact with the silicon. That's hard to
> diagnose.
>
> *******
>
> You can pop a SHA1 into a Google search and see if any hits
> come back. You might even find the page or file with the
> SHA1 in it. When a Google search using a SHA1 returns no
> hits, your download is bad :-)
>
> You have to choose a checksum type, typical for the epoch.
> Maybe a Ubuntu 8.04 CD would have used MD5 sums, in which
> case you'd do an MD5 sum. Maybe a later DVD, the checksum
> file used SHA1. Today, it might be SHA256 or even SHA512. The
> method in the previous paragraph, assumes the operator knows
> what epoch the media is from. Nobody would be using MD5
> today for a "security" purpose, but an MD5 could still be
> used as a download check. If you're worried about
> "fraud" or someone planting media on a server, MD5 is
> useless for that kind of issue.
>
> Paul
>

I use whatever <blah>SUMS files are provided...
http://releases.ubuntu.com/16.04/

But, it's useless if it's not for the revision automatically downloaded,
which most users do.
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