Discussion:
OT: bluetooth on inspiron 15-3565 has distortion intermittently
(too old to reply)
bilsch01
2020-08-18 07:22:33 UTC
Permalink
A previous post here solved a bluetooth/wifi problem on a Dell inspiron
N4110 by doing a tweak to the configuration file iwlwifi.conf. That
tweak showed me there was no problem with the BT receiver connected to
the stereo. Using the same BT receiver and stereo I am now trying out
the BT on a different Dell laptop, a Dell inspiron 15-3565, and there is
a problem of intermittent distortion of the audio output.

The 15-3565 uses a combined BT/wifi card. The wifi indicator on the
Ubuntu screen always shows a very weak indication. The other wifi
devices in the house show a significantly stronger wifi indication.
This 15-3565 often looses the internet connection. Therefore I know the
BT/wifi hardware has a problem, and that is likely the source of the
intermittent audio distortion. A Youtube video shows the BT/wifi card is
the easiest component to change on the laptop. The BT/wifi card is Intel
Wireless 3165. This 15-3565 is a cheap computer. Is there perhaps a
better card to use. Also, could be there is something wrong beside the
card. Your comments are welcome.

TIA. Bill S.
Paul
2020-08-18 10:52:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by bilsch01
A previous post here solved a bluetooth/wifi problem on a Dell inspiron
N4110 by doing a tweak to the configuration file iwlwifi.conf. That
tweak showed me there was no problem with the BT receiver connected to
the stereo. Using the same BT receiver and stereo I am now trying out
the BT on a different Dell laptop, a Dell inspiron 15-3565, and there is
a problem of intermittent distortion of the audio output.
The 15-3565 uses a combined BT/wifi card. The wifi indicator on the
Ubuntu screen always shows a very weak indication. The other wifi
devices in the house show a significantly stronger wifi indication.
This 15-3565 often looses the internet connection. Therefore I know the
BT/wifi hardware has a problem, and that is likely the source of the
intermittent audio distortion. A Youtube video shows the BT/wifi card is
the easiest component to change on the laptop. The BT/wifi card is Intel
Wireless 3165. This 15-3565 is a cheap computer. Is there perhaps a
better card to use. Also, could be there is something wrong beside the
card. Your comments are welcome.
TIA. Bill S.
Is the BT-to-device path "line of sight" ?

I have trouble here, if I make a right-angle turn
off the hallway, then the signal drops to nothing.
None of the door frames off the hallway, are metallic.

*******

The only minor detail with mini-card change-out,
is putting the two coax back on. The coax connector
type used, is easy to "squash" and ruin, when
fitting the coax cables. It's not a screw-on
connector inside the machine. It's a compression
fit. And the materials are not robust.

The part on the card is OK, and that part is shown here.

https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/179277/what-is-the-name-of-the-tiny-pcb-radio-connectors-e-g-apple-wifi-bluetooth-an

It's the cable end which isn't very strong. And
is easier to ruin. It's a compression fit. These
would be the antenna cables in the laptop.

Loading Image...

This is another example, where the center conductor
style on the cable is a bit different. It's all a
matter of alignment. When people make copies of the
Hirose connector, they might adjust how the center bit
works a tiny bit.

Loading Image...

*******

You can get BT devices like this. This is what I've got.
Range, about 20 feet (doesn't reach the kitchen, works best
in a straight line).

https://www.newegg.com/asus-usb-bt400-usb-2-0/p/N82E16833320166

The highest standards version is BT 5.0. For things like
A2DP profile, probably makes no difference at all.

https://www.amazon.com/ASUS-USB-BT500-Bluetooth-Backward-Compatible/dp/B08DFBNG7F

This one is Class 1 and is supposed to have a longer range.
However, the peripheral (headphones/speaker) also has to
have this sort of reach, for the "transceiving" to work.
The folklore is, if you use a Class 1 dongle with a Class 3
peripheral, you get a bit of extra range from the Class 3
peripheral. Does that makes sense ? Dunno. The two above
are not likely Class 1. And the 20 foot reach of
mine tells you that too. I can't pick up signal in the
back yard as I might with this. If I had a Class 1 BT Speaker,
maybe it would work down the street when using this item.

https://www.newegg.com/startech-usbbt1edr2-usb-1-1/p/N82E16833114055

The problem with doing RF Power Amps in CMOS, is it's
hard on the CMOS and after three months, the signal
level can drop. To run really high powers, it's better
to use a second (bipolar) PA instead, for final signal
output. A number of other 2.4GHz wireless devices
use a separate PA for better reliability.

Paul
bilsch01
2020-08-19 05:58:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul
Post by bilsch01
A previous post here solved a bluetooth/wifi problem on a Dell
inspiron N4110 by doing a tweak to the configuration file
iwlwifi.conf. That tweak showed me there was no problem with the BT
receiver connected to the stereo. Using the same BT receiver and
stereo I am now trying out the BT on a different Dell laptop, a Dell
inspiron 15-3565, and there is a problem of intermittent distortion of
the audio output.
The 15-3565 uses a combined BT/wifi card. The wifi indicator on the
Ubuntu screen always shows a very weak indication. The other wifi
devices in the house show a significantly stronger wifi indication.
This 15-3565 often looses the internet connection. Therefore I know
the BT/wifi hardware has a problem, and that is likely the source of
the intermittent audio distortion. A Youtube video shows the BT/wifi
card is the easiest component to change on the laptop. The BT/wifi
card is Intel Wireless 3165. This 15-3565 is a cheap computer. Is
there perhaps a better card to use. Also, could be there is something
wrong beside the card. Your comments are welcome.
TIA.   Bill S.
Is the BT-to-device path "line of sight" ?
I have trouble here, if I make a right-angle turn
off the hallway, then the signal drops to nothing.
None of the door frames off the hallway, are metallic.
*******
The only minor detail with mini-card change-out,
is putting the two coax back on. The coax connector
type used, is easy to "squash" and ruin, when
fitting the coax cables. It's not a screw-on
connector inside the machine. It's a compression
fit. And the materials are not robust.
The part on the card is OK, and that part is shown here.
https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/179277/what-is-the-name-of-the-tiny-pcb-radio-connectors-e-g-apple-wifi-bluetooth-an
It's the cable end which isn't very strong. And
is easier to ruin. It's a compression fit. These
would be the antenna cables in the laptop.
https://media.digikey.com/Photos/Hirose%20Elect%20Photos/U.FL-2LP-068N2-A-%28xxxx%29.JPG
This is another example, where the center conductor
style on the cable is a bit different. It's all a
matter of alignment. When people make copies of the
Hirose connector, they might adjust how the center bit
works a tiny bit.
https://cdn.sparkfun.com/tutorialimages/RF_Guide/UFL.jpg
*******
You can get BT devices like this. This is what I've got.
Range, about 20 feet (doesn't reach the kitchen, works best
in a straight line).
https://www.newegg.com/asus-usb-bt400-usb-2-0/p/N82E16833320166
The highest standards version is BT 5.0. For things like
A2DP profile, probably makes no difference at all.
https://www.amazon.com/ASUS-USB-BT500-Bluetooth-Backward-Compatible/dp/B08DFBNG7F
This one is Class 1 and is supposed to have a longer range.
However, the peripheral (headphones/speaker) also has to
have this sort of reach, for the "transceiving" to work.
The folklore is, if you use a Class 1 dongle with a Class 3
peripheral, you get a bit of extra range from the Class 3
peripheral. Does that makes sense ? Dunno. The two above
are not likely Class 1. And the 20 foot reach of
mine tells you that too. I can't pick up signal in the
back yard as I might with this. If I had a Class 1 BT Speaker,
maybe it would work down the street when using this item.
https://www.newegg.com/startech-usbbt1edr2-usb-1-1/p/N82E16833114055
The problem with doing RF Power Amps in CMOS, is it's
hard on the CMOS and after three months, the signal
level can drop. To run really high powers, it's better
to use a second (bipolar) PA instead, for final signal
output. A number of other 2.4GHz wireless devices
use a separate PA for better reliability.
   Paul
Thanks Paul. Your post was very informative.

Bill S.
bilsch01
2020-08-20 05:57:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul
Post by bilsch01
A previous post here solved a bluetooth/wifi problem on a Dell
inspiron N4110 by doing a tweak to the configuration file
iwlwifi.conf. That tweak showed me there was no problem with the BT
receiver connected to the stereo. Using the same BT receiver and
stereo I am now trying out the BT on a different Dell laptop, a Dell
inspiron 15-3565, and there is a problem of intermittent distortion of
the audio output.
The 15-3565 uses a combined BT/wifi card. The wifi indicator on the
Ubuntu screen always shows a very weak indication. The other wifi
devices in the house show a significantly stronger wifi indication.
This 15-3565 often looses the internet connection. Therefore I know
the BT/wifi hardware has a problem, and that is likely the source of
the intermittent audio distortion. A Youtube video shows the BT/wifi
card is the easiest component to change on the laptop. The BT/wifi
card is Intel Wireless 3165. This 15-3565 is a cheap computer. Is
there perhaps a better card to use. Also, could be there is something
wrong beside the card. Your comments are welcome.
TIA.   Bill S.
Is the BT-to-device path "line of sight" ?
I have trouble here, if I make a right-angle turn
off the hallway, then the signal drops to nothing.
None of the door frames off the hallway, are metallic.
*******
The only minor detail with mini-card change-out,
is putting the two coax back on. The coax connector
type used, is easy to "squash" and ruin, when
fitting the coax cables. It's not a screw-on
connector inside the machine. It's a compression
fit. And the materials are not robust.
The part on the card is OK, and that part is shown here.
https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/179277/what-is-the-name-of-the-tiny-pcb-radio-connectors-e-g-apple-wifi-bluetooth-an
It's the cable end which isn't very strong. And
is easier to ruin. It's a compression fit. These
would be the antenna cables in the laptop.
https://media.digikey.com/Photos/Hirose%20Elect%20Photos/U.FL-2LP-068N2-A-%28xxxx%29.JPG
This is another example, where the center conductor
style on the cable is a bit different. It's all a
matter of alignment. When people make copies of the
Hirose connector, they might adjust how the center bit
works a tiny bit.
https://cdn.sparkfun.com/tutorialimages/RF_Guide/UFL.jpg
*******
You can get BT devices like this. This is what I've got.
Range, about 20 feet (doesn't reach the kitchen, works best
in a straight line).
https://www.newegg.com/asus-usb-bt400-usb-2-0/p/N82E16833320166
The highest standards version is BT 5.0. For things like
A2DP profile, probably makes no difference at all.
https://www.amazon.com/ASUS-USB-BT500-Bluetooth-Backward-Compatible/dp/B08DFBNG7F
This one is Class 1 and is supposed to have a longer range.
However, the peripheral (headphones/speaker) also has to
have this sort of reach, for the "transceiving" to work.
The folklore is, if you use a Class 1 dongle with a Class 3
peripheral, you get a bit of extra range from the Class 3
peripheral. Does that makes sense ? Dunno. The two above
are not likely Class 1. And the 20 foot reach of
mine tells you that too. I can't pick up signal in the
back yard as I might with this. If I had a Class 1 BT Speaker,
maybe it would work down the street when using this item.
https://www.newegg.com/startech-usbbt1edr2-usb-1-1/p/N82E16833114055
The problem with doing RF Power Amps in CMOS, is it's
hard on the CMOS and after three months, the signal
level can drop. To run really high powers, it's better
to use a second (bipolar) PA instead, for final signal
output. A number of other 2.4GHz wireless devices
use a separate PA for better reliability.
   Paul
If I open up the laptop I'm going to be ready to replace the part. I'm
thinking I will try either:

Intel 9260.NGWG.NV
aka Intel Wireless-AC 9260, 2230, 2x2 AC+BT, Gigabit, No vPro
or
Intel 8265.NGWMG.NV
aka Intel Wireless-AC 8265, 2230, 2x2 AC+BT, No vPro

Question: How do I select a supplier that has good quality parts. I've
bought components online from Mouser before but not like these. Any
suggestions.

Question: How can I get Ubuntu to notice the new part so it provides
the appropriate driver and configuration file? The laptop also boots
Windows 10 so I have the question there too.

Thanks. Bill S.
Paul
2020-08-20 10:59:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by bilsch01
If I open up the laptop I'm going to be ready to replace the part. I'm
Intel 9260.NGWG.NV
aka Intel Wireless-AC 9260, 2230, 2x2 AC+BT, Gigabit, No vPro
or
Intel 8265.NGWMG.NV
aka Intel Wireless-AC 8265, 2230, 2x2 AC+BT, No vPro
Question: How do I select a supplier that has good quality parts. I've
bought components online from Mouser before but not like these. Any
suggestions.
Question: How can I get Ubuntu to notice the new part so it provides
the appropriate driver and configuration file? The laptop also boots
Windows 10 so I have the question there too.
Thanks. Bill S.
Buying a Wifi is not like buying tomatoes at the grocery store.

Some laptops, with Intel Centrino branding, there can be BIOS restrictions
on exactly what gets plugged in. Now, your suggestions above, sound
like they might be acceptable, but it would all depend on the
"shenanigans" encoded in the BIOS. Centrino branding is awarded
by Intel, for using lots of Intel parts, so it's a contract pricing
deal between Dell and Intel. And for some reason, putting that BIOS
code there, to check the Wifi card for "foreigners", is part of the
deal. Why you would put a consumer antagonistic feature like that in
the BIOS, the wisdom of that eludes me. ("Detection" may fail for
foreign modules - they may be rendered invisible by the BIOS.)

When fitting Wifi modules, the number of Wifi antenna has to match.

The Wifi antennas can also be single frequency or dual frequency.
The dual frequency ones, the coaxial wire part doesn't care
what goes up the wire (subject to dielectric loss maybe). The
antenna on the end though, has to have elements to make the
antenna work at both 2.4GHz and 5GHz.

There might be a few different interfaces on them. Maybe an older
laptop would have mini PCI, a newer one mini PCIe. Sometimes,
the connector has two interfaces, both a bus standard like PCIe,
but also the D+ and D- of USB2. And the chipset on the little
card, can be joined to the computer over USB2. In the case of
a higher rate module, it's unlikely they'd put USB3 on said
connector, because it uses a different number of pins, and
then the Wifi uses the bus interface instead (whatever it
happens to be). But using the USB2 contacts would be popular
on maybe 802.11N or less. The details only matter, if say your
USB drivers were busted or something (highly unlikely).

*******

I assume you've checked already, to see if there is any problem
with that model accepting cards unknown when the machine was made.
And, that the antenna count is correct. If the previous device
worked on both 2.4GHz and 5GHz bands, then the antennas are probably
OK.

On Windows 10, the OS sees new hardware, and downloads a driver for it.
Check in Device Manager to see if a driver was picked up.

On Linux, the kernel builder decides what devices to support. For
example, some Linux users rebuild the kernel, and tick boxes in
the kernel config, to include or eliminate devices from support.

The generic Linux kernel is likely to include just about everything
to date. Me mentioning that the kernel is configurable, is
necessary as an explanation for why something might not be
working at the moment.

At the OS level, the module is detected and some modules
are dynamically loaded. I don't know the details of
this, except to say it's "mostly automated". Some Wifi
brands, there's blacklisting to do, so that the
correct driver gets selected.

If you needed to fiddle around to get the previous Wifi
working, then you may have changed some things that
will need unfiddling.

But in broad brush strokes, both OSes should be automating
this at the moment. In Windows 7, you'd be downloading
a driver or looking around for a driver. In Windows 10,
when a driver is loaded, some drivers are "too generic"
and they lack the hardware manufacturer control panel.
So if I wanted, say, the RealTek control panel so
I could select a graphic equalizer for sound, I might
download a separate RealTek driver package to get it.
There is sufficient Wifi automation in both OSes,
this isn't usually an issue.

But Wifi on Linux is still a challenge, as the questions
continue to come up. The decision tree for Broadcom,
I leave to others, because the breadcrumb trail is
a mess (lots of advice that might have been valid in
2010, probably isn't right for the year 2020).

No matter what platform you do this on, Wifi is
still a "moderate difficulty" project to complete
on your own without any help from others. And partially
because the industry didn't go out of their way to help.
For example, once it was known there were two Wifi
bands, the cabling in laptops should all have been
dual-frequency from then onwards. Whether the module
used it or not.

*******

Intel-branded modules (the ones you seem to be interested
in above), are all made by Intel in a sense. Intel uses
a contract manufacturer, maybe Foxconn, to do the soldering.
Intel tries not to run its own factories for this. If
someone wanted to buy the Wifi chips Intel makes and make
their own module, they'd lose the Intel branding and
module part numbers. You would not be allowed to make
"counterfeit" Intel Wireless-AC 8265 for example.
While the module has "Intel" stamped on the module,
the actual manufacturer (soldering iron guy), is
someone like Foxconn. And who that is, should not
be visible anywhere in the documentation.

The only reason for the price to vary, would be if
the Wifi modules were "pulls". Maybe someone could
give you a cheaper one, if they did nothing all day
but upgrade Wifi modules. They'd have left-overs
pulled from machines.

But for the most part, the ones you see for sale,
are really all the same.

Paul
bilsch01
2020-08-21 23:19:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul
Post by bilsch01
If I open up the laptop I'm going to be ready to replace the part. I'm
Intel 9260.NGWG.NV
aka Intel Wireless-AC 9260, 2230, 2x2 AC+BT, Gigabit, No vPro
   or
Intel 8265.NGWMG.NV
aka Intel Wireless-AC 8265, 2230, 2x2 AC+BT, No vPro
Question: How do I select a supplier that has good quality parts. I've
bought components online from Mouser before but not like these. Any
suggestions.
Question:  How can I get Ubuntu to notice the new part so it provides
the appropriate driver and configuration file? The laptop also boots
Windows 10 so I have the question there too.
Thanks.   Bill S.
Buying a Wifi is not like buying tomatoes at the grocery store.
Some laptops, with Intel Centrino branding, there can be BIOS restrictions
on exactly what gets plugged in. Now, your suggestions above, sound
like they might be acceptable, but it would all depend on the
"shenanigans" encoded in the BIOS. Centrino branding is awarded
by Intel, for using lots of Intel parts, so it's a contract pricing
deal between Dell and Intel. And for some reason, putting that BIOS
code there, to check the Wifi card for "foreigners", is part of the
deal. Why you would put a consumer antagonistic feature like that in
the BIOS, the wisdom of that eludes me. ("Detection" may fail for
foreign modules - they may be rendered invisible by the BIOS.)
When fitting Wifi modules, the number of Wifi antenna has to match.
The Wifi antennas can also be single frequency or dual frequency.
The dual frequency ones, the coaxial wire part doesn't care
what goes up the wire (subject to dielectric loss maybe). The
antenna on the end though, has to have elements to make the
antenna work at both 2.4GHz and 5GHz.
There might be a few different interfaces on them. Maybe an older
laptop would have mini PCI, a newer one mini PCIe. Sometimes,
the connector has two interfaces, both a bus standard like PCIe,
but also the D+ and D- of USB2. And the chipset on the little
card, can be joined to the computer over USB2. In the case of
a higher rate module, it's unlikely they'd put USB3 on said
connector, because it uses a different number of pins, and
then the Wifi uses the bus interface instead (whatever it
happens to be). But using the USB2 contacts would be popular
on maybe 802.11N or less. The details only matter, if say your
USB drivers were busted or something (highly unlikely).
*******
I assume you've checked already, to see if there is any problem
with that model accepting cards unknown when the machine was made.
And, that the antenna count is correct. If the previous device
worked on both 2.4GHz and 5GHz bands, then the antennas are probably
OK.
On Windows 10, the OS sees new hardware, and downloads a driver for it.
Check in Device Manager to see if a driver was picked up.
On Linux, the kernel builder decides what devices to support. For
example, some Linux users rebuild the kernel, and tick boxes in
the kernel config, to include or eliminate devices from support.
The generic Linux kernel is likely to include just about everything
to date. Me mentioning that the kernel is configurable, is
necessary as an explanation for why something might not be
working at the moment.
At the OS level, the module is detected and some modules
are dynamically loaded. I don't know the details of
this, except to say it's "mostly automated". Some Wifi
brands, there's blacklisting to do, so that the
correct driver gets selected.
If you needed to fiddle around to get the previous Wifi
working, then you may have changed some things that
will need unfiddling.
But in broad brush strokes, both OSes should be automating
this at the moment. In Windows 7, you'd be downloading
a driver or looking around for a driver. In Windows 10,
when a driver is loaded, some drivers are "too generic"
and they lack the hardware manufacturer control panel.
So if I wanted, say, the RealTek control panel so
I could select a graphic equalizer for sound, I might
download a separate RealTek driver package to get it.
There is sufficient Wifi automation in both OSes,
this isn't usually an issue.
But Wifi on Linux is still a challenge, as the questions
continue to come up. The decision tree for Broadcom,
I leave to others, because the breadcrumb trail is
a mess (lots of advice that might have been valid in
2010, probably isn't right for the year 2020).
No matter what platform you do this on, Wifi is
still a "moderate difficulty" project to complete
on your own without any help from others. And partially
because the industry didn't go out of their way to help.
For example, once it was known there were two Wifi
bands, the cabling in laptops should all have been
dual-frequency from then onwards. Whether the module
used it or not.
*******
Intel-branded modules (the ones you seem to be interested
in above), are all made by Intel in a sense. Intel uses
a contract manufacturer, maybe Foxconn, to do the soldering.
Intel tries not to run its own factories for this. If
someone wanted to buy the Wifi chips Intel makes and make
their own module, they'd lose the Intel branding and
module part numbers. You would not be allowed to make
"counterfeit" Intel Wireless-AC 8265 for example.
While the module has "Intel" stamped on the module,
the actual manufacturer (soldering iron guy), is
someone like Foxconn. And who that is, should not
be visible anywhere in the documentation.
The only reason for the price to vary, would be if
the Wifi modules were "pulls". Maybe someone could
give you a cheaper one, if they did nothing all day
but upgrade Wifi modules. They'd have left-overs
pulled from machines.
But for the most part, the ones you see for sale,
are really all the same.
   Paul
Thanks again for the good info. I've got a question in on the Dell
website about using the 8265. Mean while, I see a company called fenvi
on AliExpress has what they're calling Intel 3165 cards for sale. I
guess I'll get one and see how it works for starters. I'm not in a
hurry. And I can use the practice. Maybe it will work better than what I
have now. And maybe no more tweaking necessary that way. Then maybe I'll
try the 8265.
Bill S.

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