Discussion:
OT knoppix can't see UEFI SSD on new pc
(too old to reply)
William Schaible
2020-09-29 21:08:53 UTC
Permalink
The knoppix version is 8.6.1. The new computer has a UEFI SSD with Win
10. The old computer has a pre-UEFI drive. Currently the SSD has only
Win 10 but I will put Ubuntu on it soon. Before I put Ubuntu on it I
want to do a dd copy of the original SSD to an external drive. My usual
way of doing that is to boot knoppix and run the dd command from
knoppix. Immediately before running the dd command I run fdisk to list
the devices and partitions. What's happening is fdisk does not see the
SSD in the new computer: it says the sda device is the knoppix flash
drive and there's no other device.

All the knoppix flash drives are made using the old pre-UEFI system. One
time I made the knoppix flash drive using a knoppix dvd. All other times
I used MKUSB. I wonder if the knoppix creating software is making the
assumption that the intended target system will be pre-UEFI. Or maybe
the new computer is hiding the drive from knoppix.

TIA. Bill S.
Paul
2020-09-29 22:35:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Schaible
The knoppix version is 8.6.1. The new computer has a UEFI SSD with Win
10. The old computer has a pre-UEFI drive. Currently the SSD has only
Win 10 but I will put Ubuntu on it soon. Before I put Ubuntu on it I
want to do a dd copy of the original SSD to an external drive. My usual
way of doing that is to boot knoppix and run the dd command from
knoppix. Immediately before running the dd command I run fdisk to list
the devices and partitions. What's happening is fdisk does not see the
SSD in the new computer: it says the sda device is the knoppix flash
drive and there's no other device.
All the knoppix flash drives are made using the old pre-UEFI system. One
time I made the knoppix flash drive using a knoppix dvd. All other times
I used MKUSB. I wonder if the knoppix creating software is making the
assumption that the intended target system will be pre-UEFI. Or maybe
the new computer is hiding the drive from knoppix.
TIA. Bill S.
sudo fdisk /dev/sda
p
q

sudo gdisk /dev/sda
p
q

The second command knows what GPT is (a partitioning method).

You can also use gnome-disks to display partition setups
if you want. Or

sudo gparted

to survey the situation.

*******

Installation materials are "boot sensitive"

If you download Ubuntu 20.04 and say to yourself,
"I'd really like to do an install on storage now",
you boot the DVD in UEFI mode, if you expect to do a
UEFI installation. You boot the DVD in legacy mode
(UEFI+CSM) if you want a legacy installation (MSDOS
partitioning say).

The only place I can see the difference here, is when
I press the F8 "popup boot menu" hotkey on my computer.
Then the two choices for booting from the DVD drive
are presented to me.

You need to learn about popup boot, to get all the
options presented at boot time.

But so far, the things you've been talking about, the
"reviewing of disks", that does not require special
precautions. The OS function does not change based
on how it's booted. It's only the "virtue signaling"
of booting UEFI mode, causing a UEFI installation to
happen, that depends on how you booted the DVD.

*******

I'm not going to address your usage of "dd".
I hope you know what you're doing. "dd" is dangerous
(amongst other things). "dd" does not respect the needs
of boot identifiers either. It can make an awful mess,
requiring "some learning" to fix.

At least, do not try "sudo update-grub" with the
two cloned drives still plugged in. Be careful what
disk can "see" what other disk, at inopportune moments.

While doing your disk surgery, unplug the network cable.
Why ? This prevents any sort of OS upgrade/update from
buggering what you're doing.

Paul
bilsch01
2020-09-30 04:21:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Schaible
The knoppix version is 8.6.1. The new computer has a UEFI SSD with Win
10. The old computer has a pre-UEFI drive. Currently the SSD has only
Win 10 but I will put Ubuntu on it soon. Before I put Ubuntu on it I
want to do a dd copy of the original SSD to an external drive. My usual
way of doing that is to boot knoppix and run the dd command from
knoppix. Immediately before running the dd command I run fdisk to list
the devices and partitions. What's happening is fdisk does not see the
SSD in the new computer: it says the sda device is the knoppix flash
drive and there's no other device.
All the knoppix flash drives are made using the old pre-UEFI system. One
time I made the knoppix flash drive using a knoppix dvd. All other times
I used MKUSB. I wonder if the knoppix creating software is making the
assumption that the intended target system will be pre-UEFI. Or maybe
the new computer is hiding the drive from knoppix.
TIA.   Bill S.
Here is the output of fdisk -l when booted in knoppix.

***@Microknoppix:~$ sudo fdisk -l

Disk /dev/sda: 29.3 GiB, 31457280000 bytes, 61440000 sectors
Disk model: USB Flash Drive
Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disklabel type: dos
Disk identifier: 0x619b66ee

Device Boot Start End Sectors Size Id Type
/dev/sda1 * 64 9035711 9035648 4.3G 0 Empty
/dev/sda2 9035712 9066431 30720 15M ef EFI (FAT-12/16/32)
/dev/sda3 9066432 61439999 52373568 25G 83 Linux
***@Microknoppix:~$

Note:
ONLY THE 32 GIGABYTE KNOPPIX FLASH DRIVE IS SEEN BY FDISK
WHEN BOOTED IN KNOPPIX.
IN PARTICULAR, THE SSD DRIVE WITH WINDOWS IS NOT LISTED.
Paul
2020-09-30 07:31:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by bilsch01
Post by William Schaible
The knoppix version is 8.6.1. The new computer has a UEFI SSD with Win
10. The old computer has a pre-UEFI drive. Currently the SSD has only
Win 10 but I will put Ubuntu on it soon. Before I put Ubuntu on it I
want to do a dd copy of the original SSD to an external drive. My
usual way of doing that is to boot knoppix and run the dd command from
knoppix. Immediately before running the dd command I run fdisk to list
the devices and partitions. What's happening is fdisk does not see the
SSD in the new computer: it says the sda device is the knoppix flash
drive and there's no other device.
All the knoppix flash drives are made using the old pre-UEFI system.
One time I made the knoppix flash drive using a knoppix dvd. All other
times I used MKUSB. I wonder if the knoppix creating software is
making the assumption that the intended target system will be
pre-UEFI. Or maybe the new computer is hiding the drive from knoppix.
TIA. Bill S.
Here is the output of fdisk -l when booted in knoppix.
Disk /dev/sda: 29.3 GiB, 31457280000 bytes, 61440000 sectors
Disk model: USB Flash Drive
Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disklabel type: dos
Disk identifier: 0x619b66ee
Device Boot Start End Sectors Size Id Type
/dev/sda1 * 64 9035711 9035648 4.3G 0 Empty
/dev/sda2 9035712 9066431 30720 15M ef EFI (FAT-12/16/32)
/dev/sda3 9066432 61439999 52373568 25G 83 Linux
ONLY THE 32 GIGABYTE KNOPPIX FLASH DRIVE IS SEEN BY FDISK
WHEN BOOTED IN KNOPPIX.
IN PARTICULAR, THE SSD DRIVE WITH WINDOWS IS NOT LISTED.
OK, let's try

dmesg | less

Do you see anything other than sda there ?

Are there complaints about hardware at that point, in dmesg ?

Make sure both the power and data cables are plugged in, if
this is a SATA SSD. If this is an M.2 NVMe, there might be other
things, like BIOS settings, which can affect it.

Linux seems to be able to turn on SATA ports which are turned
off at the BIOS level, so that isn't a problem :-)

You can try other utilities, "lshw" or the like.

This is an example of gnome-disks utility showing
two SSD and two HDD, from Knoppix 8.6 DVD as OS. And the HDD
in the example is a GPT partitioned disk with both
Linux and Windows partitions on it.

Loading Image...

Paul
dyrmak
2020-09-30 09:14:27 UTC
Permalink
En 42 lignes bilsch01 a écrit
Post by bilsch01
Post by William Schaible
The knoppix version is 8.6.1. The new computer has a UEFI SSD with Win
10. The old computer has a pre-UEFI drive. Currently the SSD has only
Win 10 but I will put Ubuntu on it soon. Before I put Ubuntu on it I
want to do a dd copy of the original SSD to an external drive. My usual
way of doing that is to boot knoppix and run the dd command from
knoppix. Immediately before running the dd command I run fdisk to list
the devices and partitions. What's happening is fdisk does not see the
SSD in the new computer: it says the sda device is the knoppix flash
drive and there's no other device.
All the knoppix flash drives are made using the old pre-UEFI system. One
time I made the knoppix flash drive using a knoppix dvd. All other times
I used MKUSB. I wonder if the knoppix creating software is making the
assumption that the intended target system will be pre-UEFI. Or maybe
the new computer is hiding the drive from knoppix.
TIA.   Bill S.
Here is the output of fdisk -l when booted in knoppix.
Disk /dev/sda: 29.3 GiB, 31457280000 bytes, 61440000 sectors
Disk model: USB Flash Drive
Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disklabel type: dos
Disk identifier: 0x619b66ee
Device Boot Start End Sectors Size Id Type
/dev/sda1 * 64 9035711 9035648 4.3G 0 Empty
/dev/sda2 9035712 9066431 30720 15M ef EFI (FAT-12/16/32)
/dev/sda3 9066432 61439999 52373568 25G 83 Linux
ONLY THE 32 GIGABYTE KNOPPIX FLASH DRIVE IS SEEN BY FDISK
WHEN BOOTED IN KNOPPIX.
IN PARTICULAR, THE SSD DRIVE WITH WINDOWS IS NOT LISTED.
When booting the knoppix flash-drive I would integrate it entirely
on the UEFI computer system, knoppix could need to be fully recognized
with secure-boot on, only then you might have access to every thing.

( Yes, a flsh-drive knoppix can be booted on UEFI systems with secure boot on )

dyrmak
--
¿ La noche ?... La noche es de verbena...
++++ --- ++++
Linux operating system
++++ --- ++++
William Schaible
2020-10-03 04:28:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by dyrmak
En 42 lignes bilsch01 a écrit
Post by bilsch01
Post by William Schaible
The knoppix version is 8.6.1. The new computer has a UEFI SSD with Win
10. The old computer has a pre-UEFI drive. Currently the SSD has only
Win 10 but I will put Ubuntu on it soon. Before I put Ubuntu on it I
want to do a dd copy of the original SSD to an external drive. My usual
way of doing that is to boot knoppix and run the dd command from
knoppix. Immediately before running the dd command I run fdisk to list
the devices and partitions. What's happening is fdisk does not see the
SSD in the new computer: it says the sda device is the knoppix flash
drive and there's no other device.
All the knoppix flash drives are made using the old pre-UEFI system. One
time I made the knoppix flash drive using a knoppix dvd. All other times
I used MKUSB. I wonder if the knoppix creating software is making the
assumption that the intended target system will be pre-UEFI. Or maybe
the new computer is hiding the drive from knoppix.
TIA.   Bill S.
Here is the output of fdisk -l when booted in knoppix.
Disk /dev/sda: 29.3 GiB, 31457280000 bytes, 61440000 sectors
Disk model: USB Flash Drive
Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disklabel type: dos
Disk identifier: 0x619b66ee
Device Boot Start End Sectors Size Id Type
/dev/sda1 * 64 9035711 9035648 4.3G 0 Empty
/dev/sda2 9035712 9066431 30720 15M ef EFI (FAT-12/16/32)
/dev/sda3 9066432 61439999 52373568 25G 83 Linux
ONLY THE 32 GIGABYTE KNOPPIX FLASH DRIVE IS SEEN BY FDISK
WHEN BOOTED IN KNOPPIX.
IN PARTICULAR, THE SSD DRIVE WITH WINDOWS IS NOT LISTED.
When booting the knoppix flash-drive I would integrate it entirely
on the UEFI computer system, knoppix could need to be fully recognized
with secure-boot on, only then you might have access to every thing.
( Yes, a flsh-drive knoppix can be booted on UEFI systems with secure boot on )
This concerns booting a knoppix flash drive. I did some tinkering, I've
got an idea how to get the secure boot key made. First, UEFI wanted me
to enroll a hash for the program named loader.efi. It gave me a menu
like this:

* ENROLL HASH
* START UEFI KEY TOOL
* REBOOT TO UEFI MENU
* REBOOT SYSTEM
* EXIT

and I used it to enroll a hash for loader.efi. Now I need to get that
menu again so I can enroll a hash for the KNOPPIX binary file. But I
don't know how to trigger it to display. I set knoppix as boot priority
#1 in the BIOS and then tell it to reboot, both with 'secure boot' ON
then with it OFF, but neither way triggers the menu to display. Either
way it boots into knoppix but fdisk doesn't see the main SSD. I need to
get the system to tell me that I need to enroll a hash for KNOPPIX. Then
I can get to the menu shown above. Do you know how I do that?

TIA. Bill S.

bilsch01
2020-09-30 07:15:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Schaible
The knoppix version is 8.6.1. The new computer has a UEFI SSD with Win
10. The old computer has a pre-UEFI drive. Currently the SSD has only
Win 10 but I will put Ubuntu on it soon. Before I put Ubuntu on it I
want to do a dd copy of the original SSD to an external drive. My usual
way of doing that is to boot knoppix and run the dd command from
knoppix. Immediately before running the dd command I run fdisk to list
the devices and partitions. What's happening is fdisk does not see the
SSD in the new computer: it says the sda device is the knoppix flash
drive and there's no other device.
All the knoppix flash drives are made using the old pre-UEFI system. One
time I made the knoppix flash drive using a knoppix dvd. All other times
I used MKUSB. I wonder if the knoppix creating software is making the
assumption that the intended target system will be pre-UEFI. Or maybe
the new computer is hiding the drive from knoppix.
TIA.   Bill S.
***@Microknoppix:~$ gdisk /dev/sda
GPT fdisk (gdisk) version 1.0.3

Partition table scan:
MBR: MBR only
BSD: not present
APM: not present
GPT: not present

*******************************
Found invalid GPT and valid MBR
Paul
2020-09-30 09:33:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by bilsch01
Post by William Schaible
The knoppix version is 8.6.1. The new computer has a UEFI SSD with Win
10. The old computer has a pre-UEFI drive. Currently the SSD has only
Win 10 but I will put Ubuntu on it soon. Before I put Ubuntu on it I
want to do a dd copy of the original SSD to an external drive. My
usual way of doing that is to boot knoppix and run the dd command from
knoppix. Immediately before running the dd command I run fdisk to list
the devices and partitions. What's happening is fdisk does not see the
SSD in the new computer: it says the sda device is the knoppix flash
drive and there's no other device.
All the knoppix flash drives are made using the old pre-UEFI system.
One time I made the knoppix flash drive using a knoppix dvd. All other
times I used MKUSB. I wonder if the knoppix creating software is
making the assumption that the intended target system will be
pre-UEFI. Or maybe the new computer is hiding the drive from knoppix.
TIA. Bill S.
GPT fdisk (gdisk) version 1.0.3
MBR: MBR only
BSD: not present
APM: not present
GPT: not present
*******************************
Found invalid GPT and valid MBR
Your other command was:

***@Microknoppix:~$ sudo fdisk -l

Disk /dev/sda: 29.3 GiB, 31457280000 bytes, 61440000 sectors
Disk model: USB Flash Drive
Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disklabel type: dos
Disk identifier: 0x619b66ee

Device Boot Start End Sectors Size Id Type
/dev/sda1 * 64 9035711 9035648 4.3G 0 Empty
/dev/sda2 9035712 9066431 30720 15M ef EFI (FAT-12/16/32)
/dev/sda3 9066432 61439999 52373568 25G 83 Linux
***@Microknoppix:~$

Since "fdisk" agrees it is an MBR disk (MSDOS partition scheme),
it's not a surprise that gdisk on /dev/sda agrees with that
analysis. The "gdisk" command was not able to find GPT info
and rates it as "not present".

You need to do "sudo gdisk /dev/sdb" where sdb is the
presumed location of the "broken" disk.

If you cannot see that broken disk at all, you might need to visit
the BIOS and see if it is absent from there as well. You could
have a bad data cable, a bad power cable to the drive, a broken
connector, a number of things that need to be checked.

Now, you're checking to see if the SSD is "bricked" and
has stopped responding entirely. All the storage
devices should be listed in the BIOS setup screen,
as proof they're working.

Paul
wicklowham
2020-09-30 14:31:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Schaible
The knoppix version is 8.6.1. The new computer has a UEFI SSD with Win
10. The old computer has a pre-UEFI drive. Currently the SSD has only
Win 10 but I will put Ubuntu on it soon. Before I put Ubuntu on it I
want to do a dd copy of the original SSD to an external drive. My usual
way of doing that is to boot knoppix and run the dd command from
knoppix. Immediately before running the dd command I run fdisk to list
the devices and partitions. What's happening is fdisk does not see the
SSD in the new computer: it says the sda device is the knoppix flash
drive and there's no other device.
All the knoppix flash drives are made using the old pre-UEFI system. One
time I made the knoppix flash drive using a knoppix dvd. All other times
I used MKUSB. I wonder if the knoppix creating software is making the
assumption that the intended target system will be pre-UEFI. Or maybe
the new computer is hiding the drive from knoppix.
TIA.   Bill S.
===============
When running Knoppix (live or installed) run gparted . If not there
install it through sudo apt install gparted .
Then run gparted and on its main screen you can see all the available
storage devices in the upper right hand corner by clicking v
You then know the status of all storage devices being either unallocated
, formatted or formatted with files present.
One of the most useful apps in Linux.

Frank in County Wicklow -Ireland
Johnny
2020-09-30 14:39:43 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 29 Sep 2020 14:08:53 -0700
Post by William Schaible
The knoppix version is 8.6.1. The new computer has a UEFI SSD with
Win 10. The old computer has a pre-UEFI drive. Currently the SSD has
only Win 10 but I will put Ubuntu on it soon. Before I put Ubuntu on
it I want to do a dd copy of the original SSD to an external drive.
My usual way of doing that is to boot knoppix and run the dd command
from knoppix. Immediately before running the dd command I run fdisk
to list the devices and partitions. What's happening is fdisk does
not see the SSD in the new computer: it says the sda device is the
knoppix flash drive and there's no other device.
All the knoppix flash drives are made using the old pre-UEFI system.
One time I made the knoppix flash drive using a knoppix dvd. All
other times I used MKUSB. I wonder if the knoppix creating software
is making the assumption that the intended target system will be
pre-UEFI. Or maybe the new computer is hiding the drive from knoppix.
TIA. Bill S.
I would say it's hiding the drive.

Your are going to have to find out how to get into the UEFI Firmware
Settings on the new computer, and work from there.
Paul
2020-09-30 20:22:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Johnny
On Tue, 29 Sep 2020 14:08:53 -0700
Post by William Schaible
The knoppix version is 8.6.1. The new computer has a UEFI SSD with
Win 10. The old computer has a pre-UEFI drive. Currently the SSD has
only Win 10 but I will put Ubuntu on it soon. Before I put Ubuntu on
it I want to do a dd copy of the original SSD to an external drive.
My usual way of doing that is to boot knoppix and run the dd command
from knoppix. Immediately before running the dd command I run fdisk
to list the devices and partitions. What's happening is fdisk does
not see the SSD in the new computer: it says the sda device is the
knoppix flash drive and there's no other device.
All the knoppix flash drives are made using the old pre-UEFI system.
One time I made the knoppix flash drive using a knoppix dvd. All
other times I used MKUSB. I wonder if the knoppix creating software
is making the assumption that the intended target system will be
pre-UEFI. Or maybe the new computer is hiding the drive from knoppix.
TIA. Bill S.
I would say it's hiding the drive.
Your are going to have to find out how to get into the UEFI Firmware
Settings on the new computer, and work from there.
The drive should be visible at BIOS level.

The BIOS, in the drives screen, should not
be caring what is on them. This is just to
show, how there can be a BIOS page, with
all six SATA ports listed and drive names
detected, next to them.

Loading Image...

Not all computer brands are the "soul of consistency".
Dell is an example of a brand with "issues". I tried to
help someone else with an Optiplex here, and the symptoms
were downright baffling. Turn on the machine, never
twice the same behavior - drives missing, wrong thing
boots, etc. So if it's a Dell, my track record on
those so far is not good. I have a refurb Dell Optiplex here,
and that one is saintly and behaves itself. The BIOS
release notes on the web site, do not hint at what the
problem might be. You never see in a release note
that "Oops, our disk detection sucks". I no longer
consider threads like this to be unusual.

https://www.dell.com/community/Optiplex-Desktops/3010-4-sata-ports-on-MB-only-2-in-Bios/td-p/6132569/page/2

Paul
bilsch01
2020-10-01 21:46:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Schaible
The knoppix version is 8.6.1. The new computer has a UEFI SSD with Win
10. The old computer has a pre-UEFI drive. Currently the SSD has only
Win 10 but I will put Ubuntu on it soon. Before I put Ubuntu on it I
want to do a dd copy of the original SSD to an external drive. My usual
way of doing that is to boot knoppix and run the dd command from
knoppix. Immediately before running the dd command I run fdisk to list
the devices and partitions. What's happening is fdisk does not see the
SSD in the new computer: it says the sda device is the knoppix flash
drive and there's no other device.
All the knoppix flash drives are made using the old pre-UEFI system. One
time I made the knoppix flash drive using a knoppix dvd. All other times
I used MKUSB. I wonder if the knoppix creating software is making the
assumption that the intended target system will be pre-UEFI. Or maybe
the new computer is hiding the drive from knoppix.
TIA.   Bill S.
The answer: the new computer is hiding the SSD from knoppix.

Thanks.
Johnny
2020-10-01 22:07:19 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 1 Oct 2020 14:46:33 -0700
Post by bilsch01
Post by William Schaible
The knoppix version is 8.6.1. The new computer has a UEFI SSD with
Win 10. The old computer has a pre-UEFI drive. Currently the SSD
has only Win 10 but I will put Ubuntu on it soon. Before I put
Ubuntu on it I want to do a dd copy of the original SSD to an
external drive. My usual way of doing that is to boot knoppix and
run the dd command from knoppix. Immediately before running the dd
command I run fdisk to list the devices and partitions. What's
happening is fdisk does not see the SSD in the new computer: it
says the sda device is the knoppix flash drive and there's no other
device.
All the knoppix flash drives are made using the old pre-UEFI
system. One time I made the knoppix flash drive using a knoppix
dvd. All other times I used MKUSB. I wonder if the knoppix creating
software is making the assumption that the intended target system
will be pre-UEFI. Or maybe the new computer is hiding the drive
from knoppix.
TIA.   Bill S.
The answer: the new computer is hiding the SSD from knoppix.
Thanks.
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