KVM's and Ubuntu

Post by David
Does anyone have a working set-up with 2 pc's, xp and Ubuntu and a 2 port

I had a 2-port Belkin in an XP/Ubuntu combo. The KVM can be a bit
touchy, although basically it worked. A stage arose whereby it behaved
increasingly erratically. I don't know if the fault was with the KVM or
with XP/Linux. In the end, I decided to ditch the whole KVM idea. Now I
run XP, and Ubuntu Server without any X-Windows. I log in to my Ubuntu
box via putty.

YMMV, of course, but I'd say "embrace the command line", and do the
pretty-picture stuff in Windows. If you set up Samba properly, you can
even edit a file on Ubuntu just from Windows Explorer; which is
sometimes just plain easier than fiddling with emacs. Speaking of which,
is there any way of getting emacs to recognise the mouse when I'm using
putty?

David

2006-11-24 20:18:35 UTC

Post by David
Does anyone have a working set-up with 2 pc's, xp and Ubuntu and a 2 port

I had a 2-port Belkin in an XP/Ubuntu combo. The KVM can be a bit touchy,
although basically it worked. A stage arose whereby it behaved
increasingly erratically. I don't know if the fault was with the KVM or
with XP/Linux. In the end, I decided to ditch the whole KVM idea. Now I
run XP, and Ubuntu Server without any X-Windows. I log in to my Ubuntu box
via putty.
YMMV, of course, but I'd say "embrace the command line", and do the
pretty-picture stuff in Windows. If you set up Samba properly, you can
even edit a file on Ubuntu just from Windows Explorer; which is sometimes
just plain easier than fiddling with emacs. Speaking of which, is there
any way of getting emacs to recognise the mouse when I'm using putty?

Hi Mark,
Thanks for this. Which model Belkin was it you used.

Of course even if I do "embrace the command line" I still need the keyboard
to work.

I really don't want 2 keybd's, a barn full of mice nor two screens on my
desk so I really have to get this running.
Any Ubuntu wizards out there who can suggest a few things for me to try.

ray

2006-11-24 22:22:57 UTC

Post by David
Does anyone have a working set-up with 2 pc's, xp and Ubuntu and a 2 port

I had a 2-port Belkin in an XP/Ubuntu combo. The KVM can be a bit touchy,
although basically it worked. A stage arose whereby it behaved
increasingly erratically. I don't know if the fault was with the KVM or
with XP/Linux. In the end, I decided to ditch the whole KVM idea. Now I
run XP, and Ubuntu Server without any X-Windows. I log in to my Ubuntu box
via putty.
YMMV, of course, but I'd say "embrace the command line", and do the
pretty-picture stuff in Windows. If you set up Samba properly, you can
even edit a file on Ubuntu just from Windows Explorer; which is sometimes
just plain easier than fiddling with emacs. Speaking of which, is there
any way of getting emacs to recognise the mouse when I'm using putty?

Hi Mark,
Thanks for this. Which model Belkin was it you used.
Of course even if I do "embrace the command line" I still need the keyboard
to work.
I really don't want 2 keybd's, a barn full of mice nor two screens on my
desk so I really have to get this running.
Any Ubuntu wizards out there who can suggest a few things for me to try.

Of course, one option would be and X server on your MS machine, set up
xdmcp on Linux and do a remote login. There are several products listed on
Kenton Lee's X/Motif page - I particularly like the free demo from
Xmanager.

Mark Carter

2006-11-25 19:17:13 UTC

Post by ray
Of course, one option would be and X server on your MS machine, set up
xdmcp on Linux and do a remote login. There are several products listed on
Kenton Lee's X/Motif page - I particularly like the free demo from
Xmanager.

Food for thought indeed. This page looks quite interesting:
http://www.straightrunning.com/XmingNotes/#head-17
"Xming is the leading [WWW]Free Software, unlimited [WWW]X Window server
for Microsoft Windows (XP/2003/Vista)."

I once got X-Windows running on Windows using cygwin. I went away
thinking "all very nice" - but it was only twm, and KDE support seemed
fledgling, and the whole concept seemed fairly bloated anyway. And there
was no compelling reason for me to use it.

Maybe it's time I re-examined the offerings.

To some extent, it's a bit suprising that we don't hear much about
Windows/Linux GUI interoperability. Perhaps X-Windows is not ultimately
suitable for such an endeavour, and that the notion needs to be designed
from scratch ... just not necessarily by me.

Mark Carter

2006-11-29 14:07:11 UTC

Post by Mark Carter
"Xming is the leading [WWW]Free Software, unlimited [WWW]X Window server

Well, after much ado, I finally got it working. And I'm quite impressed.
I think it's something that Windows XP users should seriously consider
if they want to connect to Linux via MS Windows, and fancy something a
bit nicer than putty.

Requires plink.exe (which is easy enough to obtain anyway).

Mark Carter

2006-11-25 18:57:06 UTC

Post by Mark Carter
YMMV, of course, but I'd say "embrace the command line", and do the
pretty-picture stuff in Windows. If you set up Samba properly, you can
even edit a file on Ubuntu just from Windows Explorer; which is sometimes
just plain easier than fiddling with emacs. Speaking of which, is there
any way of getting emacs to recognise the mouse when I'm using putty?

Hi Mark,
Thanks for this. Which model Belkin was it you used.

Can't remember now. I packed it up in the loft some time ago.

At work, we had a fancier Belkin 4-port switch. That developed an
occasional glitch, too. Then someone stole the power supply to use for
their mobile phone; but I guess you can't really blame Belkin for that ;)

Post by David
Of course even if I do "embrace the command line" I still need the keyboard
to work.

Are you sure? I access my Linux machine through putty from Windows XP. I
have only one keyboard, mouse, and monitor, which are connected to XP. I
have less cabling, and it's just as quick (in fact quicker) to "switch"
to Linux - I just maximise the putty window to tinker away. It does mean
that I just get command-line access - although I do use curses-based
apps, too. No X-Windows for me.

I decided to go for my current approach after having a bit of a think
about what I actually wanted to achieve with my Linux box. I'm currently
using it as a file server and web proxy - and lately I've just begun
messing around with Oracle. I'm finding command-line only to be
adequate; although I'm not one of those 1337 users who begrudge someone
wanting their fancy KDE or Gnome, or whatever. But it may help you to
ask yourself the question "do I need a desktop environment?"

BTW, if you do go for putty, then the UNIX `screen' command is very useful.

Mike Easter

2006-11-24 18:48:21 UTC

Post by David
Does anyone have a working set-up with 2 pc's, xp and Ubuntu and a 2
port KVM that works

2 computers/towers, 1 multibooting win98se, ub; 1 multibooting ub,
linspire; 2 port micro-kvm to kb, mouse, 17" lcd monitor. Each tower
is cable modeming via LinkSys switchrouter to modem.

Post by David
and in which case what's the make and did you
have to doodle with it to get it up and running.

IOGear MiniView Micro KVM Switch w/6' cables built in (GCS62) - "all you
need to do is to plug it into your computers"

Really slick, really tiny, nothing to install, nothing to do,
doubleclick the kb scroll lock key and it flips between the 2. You can
configure it to autoflip with configurable time interval between
autoflips, which is 'interesting'. I got it for a 'steal' on sale at
Fry's, not $40 as adv/d MSRP at IOGear. I think I paid $20 and loved it
so much I went back and bought another for another double computer
station.

Generally I'm running 98se on #1 and Dapper+EasyUb on #2. Sometimes if
I need to 'send' something from one to the other I use winpopup to/from
linpopup over the network between them.

--
Mike Easter

David

2006-11-24 20:26:17 UTC

Post by Mike Easter

Post by David
Does anyone have a working set-up with 2 pc's, xp and Ubuntu and a 2
port KVM that works

2 computers/towers, 1 multibooting win98se, ub; 1 multibooting ub,
linspire; 2 port micro-kvm to kb, mouse, 17" lcd monitor. Each tower
is cable modeming via LinkSys switchrouter to modem.

Post by David
and in which case what's the make and did you
have to doodle with it to get it up and running.

IOGear MiniView Micro KVM Switch w/6' cables built in (GCS62) - "all you
need to do is to plug it into your computers"
Really slick, really tiny, nothing to install, nothing to do,
doubleclick the kb scroll lock key and it flips between the 2. You can
configure it to autoflip with configurable time interval between
autoflips, which is 'interesting'. I got it for a 'steal' on sale at
Fry's, not $40 as adv/d MSRP at IOGear. I think I paid $20 and loved it
so much I went back and bought another for another double computer
station.
Generally I'm running 98se on #1 and Dapper+EasyUb on #2. Sometimes if
I need to 'send' something from one to the other I use winpopup to/from
linpopup over the network between them.
--
Mike Easter

Hi Mike,
Thanks for the info. So it is possible. I did a quick Google and the IOGear
miniview does look cute but couldn't find any retailer here in the UK. Plus
I've got a rather new and more expensive Belkin sitting here in disgrace. So
I'll see if anyone can help me out before I try to source a miniview from
the USA.
Cheers
Dave

ray

2006-11-24 22:19:41 UTC

Post by David
I am running 2 PCs at home. One with WinXP and the other with Ubuntu edgy.
In a rush to tidy up my desk I decide to buy a 2-port KVM yesterday (Belkin
F1DL102P.) It said it works with Linux but........ of course now I have it
in my hands the keyboard doesn't respond to the Ubuntu pc although the mouse
and monitor feeds function okay. With WinXP its all systems go.
I can't find anything on the net except someone who says they can't get the
mouse to work but there again that doesn't necessarily mean its won't work.
Any ideas folk?
Does anyone have a working set-up with 2 pc's, xp and Ubuntu and a 2 port
KVM that works and in which case what's the make and did you have to doodle
with it to get it up and running. Seems like yet another long weekend at the
keyboard.
Thanks.
Dave

I'm using an el cheapo iogear two port kvm between a large tower with
ubuntu and a mini-itx with gentoo - been using it for a couple of years
with various distros and no problem.

praf

2006-11-24 23:20:14 UTC

Post by ray

I'm using an el cheapo iogear two port kvm between a large tower with
ubuntu and a mini-itx with gentoo - been using it for a couple of years
with various distros and no problem.

Same here, a no name KVM, no problems, a kubuntu and an XP. One computer
is connected to the DVI input of the monitor the other one at the analog
VGA. When switching to the one with the digital output the monitor
switches automatically, backwards I have to hit scroll/scroll- esc plus
the button on the monitor that enables the analog video.

ken scharf

2006-11-24 21:19:12 UTC

I've had mixed luck with kvm's. In the end, I ended up with each
computer having it's own mouse and sharing the video and keyboard. This
seems to work best as it's the mouse that get's lost when switching
computers. (also mice are cheap. You can get usb mice at computer shows
for $5 each)

David

2006-11-24 21:30:32 UTC

Post by ken scharf

Yes the mice seem to be the problem for most people.....but it works fine on
my installation. its the keyboard for the Ubintu (the XP is fine) that is
the problem, That's why I was hoping there might be a hack I could do.
Cheers

mike vore

2006-11-25 01:50:11 UTC

(Top posting cause we now all know the question)P

David,
This might sound like the dumb question of the hour, but back to basics,
you haven't mentioned you tried this. 1) Have you tried swapping the cables -
you could have a bad keyboard (kvm<->pc) cable, 2) have you swapped ports on
the back of the kvm, you could have a bad kvm.

mike

--
Mike Vore
http://www.OhMyWoodness.com
http://mike.vorefamily.net/twr

CBFalconer

2006-11-25 02:51:35 UTC

Post by mike vore
(Top posting cause we now all know the question)P
This might sound like the dumb question of the hour, but back to
basics, you haven't mentioned you tried this. 1) Have you tried
swapping the cables - you could have a bad keyboard (kvm<->pc)
cable, 2) have you swapped ports on the back of the kvm, you
could have a bad kvm.

No we don't. Never top-post. Do snip portions not relevant to
your answer.

--
Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)
Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
<http://cbfalconer.home.att.net>

Marco

2006-11-25 13:15:41 UTC

No we don't. Never top-post. Do snip portions not relevant to
your answer.
--
Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)
Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
<http://cbfalconer.home.att.net>

Another solution is to get rid of the KVM switch (I had problems with KVM
and Ubuntu too), connect your mouse, keyboard and monitor to the Ubuntu PC
and make a remote desktop connection to your Windows XP machine. It works
great and even speeds up Windows a little.

Marco

David

2006-11-25 19:27:40 UTC

Post by Marco

Hi Marco.
Thanks for this. I'm a newbie so not sure I understand this fully but
willing to give it a try. Can you perhaps point me in the right direction as
to anything I can read to learn how to do this. Thanks again
Dave

Marco

2006-11-26 22:44:07 UTC

Another solution is to get rid of the KVM switch (I had problems with KVM
and Ubuntu too), connect your mouse, keyboard and monitor to the Ubuntu
PC and make a remote desktop connection to your Windows XP machine. It
works great and even speeds up Windows a little.
Marco

Hi Marco.
Thanks for this. I'm a newbie so not sure I understand this fully but
willing to give it a try. Can you perhaps point me in the right direction
as to anything I can read to learn how to do this. Thanks again
Dave

Hi Dave,
I don't remember the exect location of the so called Terminal Server Client
since i don't use Ubuntu anymore, but look under "applications" for the
Terminal Server Client. If you ever made a Remote Desktop connection from or
to a Windows XP machine you'll recognize the interface.

Good luck,

Marco

David

2006-11-25 19:25:11 UTC

Post by mike vore

--
Mike Vore
http://www.OhMyWoodness.com
http://mike.vorefamily.net/twr
(Top posting cause we now all know the question)P
David,
This might sound like the dumb question of the hour, but back to basics,
you haven't mentioned you tried this. 1) Have you tried swapping the cables -
you could have a bad keyboard (kvm<->pc) cable, 2) have you swapped ports on
the back of the kvm, you could have a bad kvm.
mike

Hi Mike,

Yes I have tried all the "obvious" stuff i.e. tried another keyboard. The
cables are integral to the unit but have swapped them between pc's et and to
no avail. Thanks anyway.

ps I have cut and pasted so its all bottom posted. Bottom seems an
appropriate word so the anally retentive "CBFalconer" will be happy. He who
seems only to be able to tell useful and helpful people how to post but has
never actually offered any helpful advise to me. Foxtrot Oscar seems to be
my advise to him.
Dave

Mark Carter

2006-11-25 19:29:23 UTC

Post by mike vore
(Top posting cause we now all know the question)P
David,
This might sound like the dumb question of the hour, but back to basics,
you haven't mentioned you tried this. 1) Have you tried swapping the cables -
you could have a bad keyboard (kvm<->pc) cable, 2) have you swapped ports on
the back of the kvm, you could have a bad kvm.

I've also heard that the Belkin is fussy about whether the "left"
computer is started first.

Baron

2006-11-25 20:33:33 UTC

Hi Moe,

I think I've done something daft. All posts disappeared when I clicked
on one ! Not just this group, all of them in all groups. Didn't want
you to think I'd vanished.

--
Baron:

Moe Trin

2006-11-26 20:46:27 UTC

On Sat, 25 Nov 2006, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.ubuntu, in article

Post by Baron
I think I've done something daft. All posts disappeared when I clicked
on one ! Not just this group, all of them in all groups.

It's not obvious from your headers what news reader you are using, but
that's the likely culprit. Perhaps a 'catch-up' function has marked all
as read. So start the new thread you were thinking about ;-)

Old guy

Baron

2006-11-26 21:54:59 UTC

Post by Moe Trin
On Sat, 25 Nov 2006, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.ubuntu, in

Post by Baron
I think I've done something daft. All posts disappeared when I
clicked on one ! Not just this group, all of them in all groups.

It's not obvious from your headers what news reader you are using, but
that's the likely culprit. Perhaps a 'catch-up' function has marked
all as read. So start the new thread you were thinking about ;-)
Old guy

Hi Moe,

Kmail, SuSE 10.1 Mmm. I had watch thread marked, but noticed that all
my adjustments have disappeared as well. Other things have changed too.
Mplayer has gone walkies, so have all my playlists in Amarok !

Another thing is that cron seems to be running jobs every 10 minutes or
so, but I can't see anything different in crontab. I'm getting a bad
feeling about it !

The only thing that I recall that I have done that has been different
from normal is trying to compile tcptraceroute-1.5beta7.tar.gz. I get
error missing ... But it doesn't say what. I doubt that has anything
to do with stuff disappearing.

I need to find out what is going on ! I can't find the firewall logs
either.

--
Baron:

Moe Trin

2006-11-27 02:56:04 UTC

On Sun, 26 Nov 2006, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.ubuntu, in article

Post by Moe Trin
It's not obvious from your headers what news reader you are using, but
that's the likely culprit. Perhaps a 'catch-up' function has marked
all as read. So start the new thread you were thinking about ;-)

Kmail, SuSE 10.1 Mmm. I had watch thread marked, but noticed that all
my adjustments have disappeared as well.

Can't say, as I don't use the KDE desktop. SuSE? OK, as root, run
'rpm -Va > /tmp/files.2.check' (this will take a few minutes) and see
what turns up. See the 'rpm' man page if you've never used that before.
For the Ubuntu people - look at debsums

Post by Baron
Other things have changed too. Mplayer has gone walkies, so have all my
playlists in Amarok !

OK - what all do you have open to the world, and who else has access to
the hardware.

Post by Baron
Another thing is that cron seems to be running jobs every 10 minutes or
so, but I can't see anything different in crontab. I'm getting a bad
feeling about it !

Which cron daemon, and which crontab? Are you sure it's cron and not
a fancy recursive 'at' script? Or even a simple script that is running
"sleep"?

Post by Baron
The only thing that I recall that I have done that has been different
from normal is trying to compile tcptraceroute-1.5beta7.tar.gz. I get
error missing ... But it doesn't say what. I doubt that has anything
to do with stuff disappearing.

Well, obviously something is missing - but what ;-) (I haven't tried
the betas yet, but I never had a problem compiling that program.)

Post by Baron
I need to find out what is going on ! I can't find the firewall logs
either.

I haven't heard of any problems with SuSE 10.1. WTF?

Old guy

Baron

2006-11-28 00:13:21 UTC

Post by Moe Trin
On Sun, 26 Nov 2006, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.ubuntu, in

Kmail, SuSE 10.1 Mmm. I had watch thread marked, but noticed that all
my adjustments have disappeared as well.

I get a file 378Kb, mostly missing items and unsatisfied dependences !
A very very long list !

Post by Baron
Other things have changed too. Mplayer has gone walkies, so have all
my playlists in Amarok !

OK - what all do you have open to the world, and who else has access
to the hardware.

Nobody, only me. Stand alone machine + Internet.

Post by Baron
Another thing is that cron seems to be running jobs every 10 minutes
or so, but I can't see anything different in crontab. I'm getting a
bad feeling about it !

Which cron daemon, and which crontab? Are you sure it's cron and not
a fancy recursive 'at' script? Or even a simple script that is
running "sleep"?

It was "Find" that was running.

Well, obviously something is missing - but what ;-) (I haven't tried
the betas yet, but I never had a problem compiling that program.)

Post by Baron
I need to find out what is going on ! I can't find the firewall logs
either.

I haven't heard of any problems with SuSE 10.1. WTF?
Old guy

I think I have found the problem..... Running out of disk space !
If I had looked at roots mail..... Well, there are several warnings.

Time to do a clean install on a new disk. Pity SCSI is so expensive.
Anyway I prefer 10.0 Novel made a mess of 10.1 Will grab 10.2 when it
comes out.

--
Baron:

Moe Trin

2006-11-29 01:09:58 UTC

On Tue, 28 Nov 2006, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.ubuntu, in article

Post by Moe Trin
'rpm -Va > /tmp/files.2.check'

I get a file 378Kb, mostly missing items and unsatisfied dependences !
A very very long list !

Are you not using the package manager normally? This workstation has
roughly 350 packages installed, and I get about 110 lines, for about 3Kb
and most of that is ownership changes and config files.

Post by Moe Trin
OK - what all do you have open to the world, and who else has access
to the hardware.

Nobody, only me. Stand alone machine + Internet.

Does 'netstat -anptu' show anything unexpectedly flapping in the breeze?

Post by Baron
Another thing is that cron seems to be running jobs every 10 minutes
or so, but I can't see anything different in crontab. I'm getting a
bad feeling about it !

Which cron daemon, and which crontab? Are you sure it's cron and not
a fancy recursive 'at' script? Or even a simple script that is
running "sleep"?

It was "Find" that was running.

Doing what? There should be nothing running that frequently out of cron.

Post by Moe Trin
I haven't heard of any problems with SuSE 10.1. WTF?

I think I have found the problem..... Running out of disk space !
If I had looked at roots mail..... Well, there are several warnings.

Running which MTA? I'm running sendmail, and for that...

[compton ~]$ grep -A1 Person /etc/aliases
# Person who should get root's mail
root: inuprofin
[compton ~]$

If you're running postfix, there is a similar setup.

Post by Baron
Time to do a clean install on a new disk. Pity SCSI is so expensive.

At work, we buy IDE for the workstations. When those get replaced, we max
out the RAM, yank the eye-candy video card, and replace the drive with SCSI.
When the servers finally get retired, some of them get "tossed" (gently
placed on a shelf where those in the know can retrieve the "garbage"), so
about half the boxes at home are old SCSI. But having said all that, the
current crop of IDE drives are proving to be reliable.

Old guy

David

2006-11-29 01:22:49 UTC

Post by Moe Trin
On Tue, 28 Nov 2006, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.ubuntu, in article

Post by Moe Trin
'rpm -Va > /tmp/files.2.check'

I get a file 378Kb, mostly missing items and unsatisfied dependences !
A very very long list !

Are you not using the package manager normally? This workstation has
roughly 350 packages installed, and I get about 110 lines, for about 3Kb
and most of that is ownership changes and config files.

Post by Moe Trin
OK - what all do you have open to the world, and who else has access
to the hardware.

Nobody, only me. Stand alone machine + Internet.

Does 'netstat -anptu' show anything unexpectedly flapping in the breeze?

Post by Baron
Another thing is that cron seems to be running jobs every 10 minutes
or so, but I can't see anything different in crontab. I'm getting a
bad feeling about it !

Which cron daemon, and which crontab? Are you sure it's cron and not
a fancy recursive 'at' script? Or even a simple script that is
running "sleep"?

It was "Find" that was running.

Doing what? There should be nothing running that frequently out of cron.

Post by Moe Trin
I haven't heard of any problems with SuSE 10.1. WTF?

I think I have found the problem..... Running out of disk space !
If I had looked at roots mail..... Well, there are several warnings.

Running which MTA? I'm running sendmail, and for that...
[compton ~]$ grep -A1 Person /etc/aliases
# Person who should get root's mail
root: inuprofin
[compton ~]$
If you're running postfix, there is a similar setup.

Post by Baron
Time to do a clean install on a new disk. Pity SCSI is so expensive.

Look this is nothing do with the original post but you and Baron continue to
post here. ????

Dave N

2006-11-29 12:12:27 UTC

Post by David
Look this is nothing do with the original post but you and Baron continue to
post here. ????

Since you are posting here using a "From:" address based on a domain
name that I suspect strongly you don't own or have permission to use
(hint: Noname Inc is based in Fremont, California), might I suggest that
you don't start querying the manners of others?

--
Dave N

David

2006-11-29 13:13:17 UTC

Post by David
Look this is nothing do with the original post but you and Baron continue to
post here. ????

Dave,
I agree that it is still best to be polite, even with some of the folk who
inhabit such forums, but I am at a loss how you can conclude I was querying
the "manners" in my post. Please re-read it and you'll see \I was saying
that they were posting there own little thread with absolutely nothing to do
with the OP.
As to my "from" address I believe I am not alone in having no desire for
spam and the like so will resist the temptation to give my real one out. I
doubt I will be hearing from noname's solicitors shortly.
Dave

Norbert Lieckfeldt

2006-11-29 13:44:16 UTC

Post by David
Look this is nothing do with the original post but you and Baron continue to
post here. ????

Since you are posting here using a "From:" address based on a domain
name that I suspect strongly you don't own or have permission to use
(hint: Noname Inc is based in Fremont, California), might I suggest
that you don't start querying the manners of others?
--
Dave N

[...]

Post by David
As to my "from" address I believe I am not alone in having no desire
for spam and the like so will resist the temptation to give my real
one out. I doubt I will be hearing from noname's solicitors shortly.

That's neither here nor there. It miht well be the case that Noname have
sophisticated policies in place to ensure their mail servers are not
overrun by spam, an effort which you consistently undermine by your use
of teir address on Usenet. What in effect you're saying is "I don't want
to get spam, and don't give a flying f&%k if they'll get it instead".

I am not entirely certain about this but from your header one might
suspect you wouldn't be too keen to have the email address such as, oh I
don't know, postmaster at shaftesbury z*n co uk made publicly available
to spam bots, but I think I may just use it as a fake reply address on
USenet for the future.

N.

Norbert

David

2006-11-29 13:55:48 UTC

Post by David
Look this is nothing do with the original post but you and Baron continue to
post here. ????

Since you are posting here using a "From:" address based on a domain
name that I suspect strongly you don't own or have permission to use
(hint: Noname Inc is based in Fremont, California), might I suggest
that you don't start querying the manners of others?
--
Dave N

[...]

That's neither here nor there. It miht well be the case that Noname have
sophisticated policies in place to ensure their mail servers are not
overrun by spam, an effort which you consistently undermine by your use
of teir address on Usenet. What in effect you're saying is "I don't want
to get spam, and don't give a flying f&%k if they'll get it instead".
I am not entirely certain about this but from your header one might
suspect you wouldn't be too keen to have the email address such as, oh I
don't know, postmaster at shaftesbury z*n co uk made publicly available
to spam bots, but I think I may just use it as a fake reply address on
USenet for the future.
N.
Norbert

Get a life Norbert

Norbert Lieckfeldt

2006-11-29 14:15:29 UTC

Post by David
Look this is nothing do with the original post but you and Baron continue to
post here. ????

Since you are posting here using a "From:" address based on a
domain name that I suspect strongly you don't own or have
permission to use (hint: Noname Inc is based in Fremont,
California), might I suggest that you don't start querying the
manners of others? --
Dave N

[...]

That's neither here nor there. It miht well be the case that Noname
have sophisticated policies in place to ensure their mail servers are
not overrun by spam, an effort which you consistently undermine by
your use of teir address on Usenet. What in effect you're saying is
"I don't want to get spam, and don't give a flying f&%k if they'll
get it instead".
I am not entirely certain about this but from your header one might
suspect you wouldn't be too keen to have the email address such as,
oh I don't know, postmaster at shaftesbury z*n co uk made publicly
available to spam bots, but I think I may just use it as a fake reply
address on USenet for the future.
N.
Norbert

Get a life Norbert

Oooouh. Such wit. Such sarcasm. I am devastated.

David

2006-11-29 14:24:22 UTC

Post by David
Look this is nothing do with the original post but you and Baron continue to
post here. ????

Since you are posting here using a "From:" address based on a domain
name that I suspect strongly you don't own or have permission to use
(hint: Noname Inc is based in Fremont, California), might I suggest
that you don't start querying the manners of others?
--
Dave N

[...]

That's neither here nor there. It miht well be the case that Noname have
sophisticated policies in place to ensure their mail servers are not
overrun by spam, an effort which you consistently undermine by your use
of teir address on Usenet. What in effect you're saying is "I don't want
to get spam, and don't give a flying f&%k if they'll get it instead".
I am not entirely certain about this but from your header one might
suspect you wouldn't be too keen to have the email address such as, oh I
don't know, postmaster at shaftesbury z*n co uk made publicly available
to spam bots, but I think I may just use it as a fake reply address on
USenet for the future.
N.
Norbert

Get a life Norbert

Norbert, DaveN and any others at all interested:

1. I was unaware and am quite surprised that there is/was an org called
noname.com. I have seen many others use it as an avoidance of spam so am
surprised a real company would select it. So I have changed my "from"
address accordingly.
2. I am amazed that there seem to be so many here who have nothing better to
do than tell others in an unfriendly manner what to do. And in a forum
supposedly about Ubuntu. And when I ask that two posters find another thread
to hold an irrelevant (to the OP) conversation I am told not to tell others
about manners. God I can quote a few rather rude replies I had at the start.
3. Norbert's veiled "threat" to use my email address so that I am in-undated
with spam is just pathetic but also aggressive, threatening and in some
countries probably illegal.
4. Considering the quality of advise I have received these last 3 weeks
(with the exception of a few really helpful and friendly folk here) I think
the "Ubuntu/Linux friendly community spirit" is just crap and shit, at
least here.
Write what ever anyone wants now but I wont further this as I think there
are genuine folk out there who don't need this and who would appreciate some
help to get their installations up and running
Dave

Norbert Lieckfeldt

2006-11-29 14:43:08 UTC

Post by David
As to my "from" address I believe I am not alone in having no
desire for spam and the like so will resist the temptation to give
my real one out. I doubt I will be hearing from noname's solicitors
shortly.

That's neither here nor there. It miht well be the case that Noname
have sophisticated policies in place to ensure their mail servers
are not overrun by spam, an effort which you consistently undermine
by your use of teir address on Usenet. What in effect you're saying
is "I don't want to get spam, and don't give a flying f&%k if
they'll get it instead".
I am not entirely certain about this but from your header one might
suspect you wouldn't be too keen to have the email address such as,
oh I don't know, postmaster at shaftesbury z*n co uk made publicly
available to spam bots, but I think I may just use it as a fake
reply address on USenet for the future.
N.
Norbert

Get a life Norbert

1. I was unaware and am quite surprised that there is/was an org
called noname.com. I have seen many others use it as an avoidance of
spam so am surprised a real company would select it. So I have changed
my "from" address accordingly

Thank you. This is all that was required. No-one expects you to KNOW
everything but it was pointed out to you that using this address was
probably not in the best interest of the people owning the domain. Your
initial reaction was unfortunately not as helpful as this one.

Post by David
3. Norbert's veiled "threat" to use
my email address so that I am in-undated with spam is just pathetic
but also aggressive, threatening and in some countries probably
illegal.

Can you quote anything about the legality of quoting email addresses or
lack thereof? You will have noticed that I munged your address to make it
unrecognisable for spam bots. I was merely inviting you to consider how
you would feel if someone did to you what you were doing to others. I
believe your reaction was 'get a life'.

Post by David
4. Considering the quality of advise I have received these
last 3 weeks (with the exception of a few really helpful and friendly
folk here) I think the "Ubuntu/Linux friendly community spirit" is
just crap and shit, at least here.

In my experience, as you sow so shall you reap. You've been given advice
here about your reply-to address. Your use of the address also breaks the
terms and conditions of your ISP. Your initial reaction was interesting,
shall we say, and less than helpful.

Norbert

David

2006-11-29 16:10:50 UTC

Post by David
As to my "from" address I believe I am not alone in having no
desire for spam and the like so will resist the temptation to give
my real one out. I doubt I will be hearing from noname's solicitors
shortly.

That's neither here nor there. It miht well be the case that Noname
have sophisticated policies in place to ensure their mail servers
are not overrun by spam, an effort which you consistently undermine
by your use of teir address on Usenet. What in effect you're saying
is "I don't want to get spam, and don't give a flying f&%k if
they'll get it instead".
I am not entirely certain about this but from your header one might
suspect you wouldn't be too keen to have the email address such as,
oh I don't know, postmaster at shaftesbury z*n co uk made publicly
available to spam bots, but I think I may just use it as a fake
reply address on USenet for the future.
N.
Norbert

Get a life Norbert

Post by David
3. Norbert's veiled "threat" to use
my email address so that I am in-undated with spam is just pathetic
but also aggressive, threatening and in some countries probably
illegal.

Now Norbert I'd like to give you some free advise. I assume you practise
what you preach and that you really do work for the organisation whose
domain you use. Even if you are not at work I doubt they would appreciate
you using their domain to issue the veiled threat you did. Whether it is
illegal or not ..I said it MIGHT be...is irrelevant but it is immoral and
charities might take a dim view of that. And of course if you are at
work...well I hope they are tolerant of how you spend your time thus.

"Sow as you shall reap" did you say. Let he who is without sin cast the
first stone..also comes to mind.
Dave

Norbert Lieckfeldt

2006-11-29 16:26:39 UTC

Post by David
Now Norbert I'd like to give you some free advise. I assume you
practise what you preach and that you really do work for the
organisation whose domain you use. Even if you are not at work I
doubt they would appreciate you using their domain to issue the veiled
threat you did. Whether it is illegal or not ..I said it MIGHT be...is
irrelevant but it is immoral and charities might take a dim view of
that. And of course if you are at work...well I hope they are tolerant
of how you spend your time thus.

Some free advice? Thanks. You assume correctly. Your doubts are noted but
inconsequential. There was no threat implied, as I pointed out and you
fail to grasp. You did not say it MIGHT be illegal, you said it is
probably illegal which is rather different. Yes, I am and yes, they are.

Post by David
"Sow as you shall reap" did you say. Let he who is without sin cast
the first stone..also comes to mind.

Quite. I wish you would apply this maxim to your liberal throwing of
stones about this group. I wasn't throwing stones - I was trying to
educate you on the impact your use of the domain name might have.
Successfully, one might add.

N.

N.

David

2006-11-29 16:38:34 UTC

Post by David
"Sow as you shall reap" did you say. Let he who is without sin cast
the first stone..also comes to mind.

I am sure you are the sort of person who just has to have the last word...so
go on..have it.

Norbert Lieckfeldt

2006-11-29 16:43:22 UTC

Post by David
Now Norbert I'd like to give you some free advise. I assume you
practise what you preach and that you really do work for the
organisation whose domain you use. Even if you are not at work I
doubt they would appreciate you using their domain to issue the
veiled threat you did. Whether it is illegal or not ..I said it
MIGHT be...is irrelevant but it is immoral and charities might take
a dim view of that. And of course if you are at work...well I hope
they are tolerant of how you spend your time thus.

Some free advice? Thanks. You assume correctly. Your doubts are noted
but inconsequential. There was no threat implied, as I pointed out
and you fail to grasp. You did not say it MIGHT be illegal, you said
it is probably illegal which is rather different. Yes, I am and yes,
they are.

Post by David
"Sow as you shall reap" did you say. Let he who is without sin cast
the first stone..also comes to mind.

I am sure you are the sort of person who just has to have the last
word...so go on..have it.

Thanks! :-)

N.

CBFalconer

2006-11-29 17:55:13 UTC

Norbert Lieckfeldt wrote:
... snip ...

Post by Norbert Lieckfeldt
Quite. I wish you would apply this maxim to your liberal throwing
of stones about this group. I wasn't throwing stones - I was trying
to educate you on the impact your use of the domain name might have.
Successfully, one might add.

Not necessarily. What guarantee is there that 'antispam.zog' is an
invalid address? There is such a guarantee for a .invalid domain.

--
Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)
Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
<http://cbfalconer.home.att.net>

Norbert Lieckfeldt

2006-11-29 19:26:46 UTC

Post by CBFalconer
... snip ...

Not necessarily. What guarantee is there that 'antispam.zog' is an
invalid address? There is such a guarantee for a .invalid domain.

I would have thought it's just as impossible to register a dot zog
domain as it is to register a dot invalid domain? Am I missing something?

N.

CBFalconer

2006-11-29 19:52:25 UTC

Post by CBFalconer
... snip ...

Not necessarily. What guarantee is there that 'antispam.zog' is an
invalid address? There is such a guarantee for a .invalid domain.

I would have thought it's just as impossible to register a dot zog
domain as it is to register a dot invalid domain? Am I missing something?

The .invalid domain is reserved for the purpose. The .zog domain
can be created at any time.

--
Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)
Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
<http://cbfalconer.home.att.net>

Hadron Quark

2006-11-30 05:13:45 UTC

Post by CBFalconer
... snip ...

Not necessarily. What guarantee is there that 'antispam.zog' is an
invalid address? There is such a guarantee for a .invalid domain.

I would have thought it's just as impossible to register a dot zog
domain as it is to register a dot invalid domain? Am I missing something?

The .invalid domain is reserved for the purpose. The .zog domain
can be created at any time.

Do you have a pointer to this? I often wondered what extensions are
reserved for such purposes. A quick google didn't spot it.

Dave N

2006-11-30 07:49:13 UTC

Post by Hadron Quark

Post by CBFalconer
... snip ...

Not necessarily. What guarantee is there that 'antispam.zog' is an
invalid address? There is such a guarantee for a .invalid domain.

I would have thought it's just as impossible to register a dot zog
domain as it is to register a dot invalid domain? Am I missing something?

The .invalid domain is reserved for the purpose. The .zog domain
can be created at any time.

Do you have a pointer to this? I often wondered what extensions are
reserved for such purposes. A quick google didn't spot it.

SFAIK it is still a draft proposal with the IETF (Internet Engineering
Task Force), although it seems to have been widely accepted. A quick
google on "tld invalid" found this:-

http://www.ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/namedroppers.199x/msg02878.htm
l

That very same search also found the following paper that describes DNS
pollution resulting from root name-server queries on invalid TLDs, which
it is claimed amounted to some 15-20% of all DNS searches in 2004. The
paper explains some of the considerations behind the use of bogus TLDs:-

http://dns.measurement-factory.com/writings/wessels-netts2004-paper.pdf

--
Dave N

Dave N

2006-11-30 07:55:52 UTC

Post by Hadron Quark

Post by CBFalconer
The .invalid domain is reserved for the purpose. The .zog domain
can be created at any time.

Do you have a pointer to this? I often wondered what extensions are
reserved for such purposes. A quick google didn't spot it.

SFAIK it is still a draft proposal with the IETF (Internet Engineering
Task Force), although it seems to have been widely accepted. A quick
google on "tld invalid" found this:-
http://www.ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/namedroppers.199x/msg02878.htm
l
That very same search also found the following paper that describes DNS
pollution resulting from root name-server queries on invalid TLDs,
which it is claimed amounted to some 15-20% of all DNS searches in
2004. The paper explains some of the considerations behind the use of
bogus TLDs:-
http://dns.measurement-factory.com/writings/wessels-netts2004-paper.pdf

Apologies for following up on myself, but when I looked further in the
same Google search I found the following reference:-

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.invalid>

It is much better, IMHO, because the Wikipedia article not only
references the RFC but also provides a list of generic TLDs together
with cross-references to further reading.

HTH

--
Dave N

CBFalconer

2006-11-30 09:20:16 UTC

Post by Hadron Quark

Post by CBFalconer
... snip ...

Not necessarily. What guarantee is there that 'antispam.zog' is an
invalid address? There is such a guarantee for a .invalid domain.

I would have thought it's just as impossible to register a dot zog
domain as it is to register a dot invalid domain? Am I missing something?

The .invalid domain is reserved for the purpose. The .zog domain
can be created at any time.

Do you have a pointer to this? I often wondered what extensions are
reserved for such purposes. A quick google didn't spot it.

No guarantees, but IIRC it is somewhere in the RFC collection. It
may just be common law.

--
Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)
Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
<http://cbfalconer.home.att.net>

CBFalconer

2006-11-29 16:10:25 UTC

David wrote:
... snip ...

Post by David
As to my "from" address I believe I am not alone in having no
desire for spam and the like so will resist the temptation to give
my real one out. I doubt I will be hearing from noname's solicitors
shortly.

--
Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)
Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
<http://cbfalconer.home.att.net>

David

2006-11-29 16:45:34 UTC

Post by CBFalconer
... snip ...

Post by David
As to my "from" address I believe I am not alone in having no
desire for spam and the like so will resist the temptation to give
my real one out. I doubt I will be hearing from noname's solicitors
shortly.

There are legitimate ways of achieving that. One is to use a
spamtrap address, which is valid, as I have. Another is to
terminate the domain with ".invalid". Meanwhile you are simply
creating headaches for the actual owner of the domain. Something
analagous to spitting on the elevator floor.
--
Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)
Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
<http://cbfalconer.home.att.net>

Yes and I have already changed it to something that will hopefully cause
no-one anywhere any grief.
Dave

Dave N

2006-11-29 17:18:52 UTC

Post by CBFalconer
... snip ...

Post by David
As to my "from" address I believe I am not alone in having no
desire for spam and the like so will resist the temptation to give
my real one out. I doubt I will be hearing from noname's solicitors
shortly.

Yes and I have already changed it to something that will hopefully cause
no-one anywhere any grief.
Dave

You have received and will still get good advice via this newsgroup. I
just hope that you are able to absorb that advice and learn from it,
rather than over-reacting because you think that you've been criticised
unfairly.

In particular you might care to look up Noname in Google, where you will
find that their business is/was largely about domain names and they have
been involved in a lot of litigation over them, so your use of their
name was particularly inappropriate.

--
Dave N

David

2006-11-29 17:38:32 UTC

Post by CBFalconer
... snip ...

Post by David
As to my "from" address I believe I am not alone in having no
desire for spam and the like so will resist the temptation to give
my real one out. I doubt I will be hearing from noname's solicitors
shortly.

Yes and I have already changed it to something that will hopefully cause
no-one anywhere any grief.
Dave

You have received and will still get good advice via this newsgroup. I
just hope that you are able to absorb that advice and learn from it,
rather than over-reacting because you think that you've been criticised
unfairly.
In particular you might care to look up Noname in Google, where you will
find that their business is/was largely about domain names and they have
been involved in a lot of litigation over them, so your use of their name
was particularly inappropriate.
--
Dave N

Dave,
Really don't want to prolong this but in answer to you:

Its the attitude and seeming arrogance here that gets me. Sorry to say it
but even your first paragraph reads a bit like that, even though I am sure
you are well meaning.

In reality this noname thread has been the most active thread I have been in
so far after 3 weeks, The others where I wanted help with Ubuntu have often
been very little help. As I said before I have no doubt there are some very
helpful and knowledgeable people here but the reality is I have got more
help from other groups. Why don't I migrate to them? Well this seems the
only Ubuntu group on Usenet I can find.

Yes I did goggle no-name and did see the legal ranglings. But I am not alone
in choosing that rather obvious choice as an anti-spam trap, although it is
changed now. Every day we learn something.
Dave

Dave N

2006-11-29 20:35:23 UTC

Post by David
Yes I did goggle no-name and did see the legal ranglings. But I am not alone
in choosing that rather obvious choice as an anti-spam trap, although it is
changed now. Every day we learn something.
Dave

Now you have discovered that it is ill-considered to misuse a domain
name which you don't own, whether or not it has been registered, you
might like to reconsider your capricious invention of the new TLD of
"zog".

You seem quick to make unsupported assumptions and act without truly
understanding what you are doing. There is a good reason that the
creation and use of TLDs is closely controlled. Apart from reading up
on DNS, you could ask in a newsgroup if you don't understand.

I think you have been given good advice by Chuck. Please take that
advice, for the sake of others.

P.S.
TLD = Top Level Domain

--
Dave N

David

2006-11-29 20:52:53 UTC

Now you have discovered that it is ill-considered to misuse a domain name
which you don't own, whether or not it has been registered, you might like
to reconsider your capricious invention of the new TLD of "zog".
You seem quick to make unsupported assumptions and act without truly
understanding what you are doing. There is a good reason that the
creation and use of TLDs is closely controlled. Apart from reading up on
DNS, you could ask in a newsgroup if you don't understand.
I think you have been given good advice by Chuck. Please take that
advice, for the sake of others.
P.S.
TLD = Top Level Domain
--
Dave N

You just don't get it do you. Even though you may be factually correct and
know a lot more about these things than I do the way you and a lot of others
come over is so arrogant and conceited that it makes me want to puke. That
not from a 15 year old geek but from a 55 year old Cambridge educated fellow
countryman of yours! I will leave the no-spam name as it is and let you,
Norbert,Chuck and anyone else who needs a life to argue the toss. If you do
come to an agreement then I am happy to take your advise. But I feel that is
wishful thinking, I have better things to do. If anyone from planet zog
disagrees then I am sure they will let me know. Wouldn't it be nice if some
people on here could offer some positive help covering UBUNTU and not
interfere in other matters.
Dave

Moe Trin

2006-11-29 19:53:17 UTC

On Wed, 29 Nov 2006, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.ubuntu, in article

Post by David
Look this is nothing do with the original post but you and Baron continue to
post here. ????

I'll agree that it's not nearly on-topic for the group, but let's look at
the headers, shall we?

Post by David
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.ubuntu
Subject: Re: ping Old Guy
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 01:22:49 -0000

If you look at the 'References:' header, those are the message IDs of all
the articles of the current thread. It should take but a few seconds to
realize that the original post is considered to be "***@212.67.96.135"
and not something previous. That post read

I think I've done something daft. All posts disappeared when I clicked
on one ! Not just this group, all of them in all groups. Didn't want
you to think I'd vanished.

His response indicated it was not a newsreader problem, but that there were
security issues, and that's why I didn't see a problem in responding (below).

If your news reader is indicating that the above article is not the start
of the thread, you need to get a real news reader.

Post by David
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869

I realize that a lot of people are forced to use windoze at work, and even
at home while they try to get a Linux setup running. But even CERT has been
recommending avoidance of Outlook and Outlook Express for years. There are
real news readers available for windoze.

Post by Moe Trin
'rpm -Va > /tmp/files.2.check'

Now Baron did trim the article, but did you notice where I wrote:

]Can't say, as I don't use the KDE desktop. SuSE? OK, as root, run
]'rpm -Va > /tmp/files.2.check' (this will take a few minutes) and see
]what turns up. See the 'rpm' man page if you've never used that before.
]For the Ubuntu people - look at debsums

Did you look at the 'debsums' man page? That was put in there for a reason.

Old guy

david

2006-11-29 20:39:14 UTC

Post by Moe Trin
On Wed, 29 Nov 2006, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.ubuntu, in article

Post by David
Look this is nothing do with the original post but you and Baron continue to
post here. ????

I'll agree that it's not nearly on-topic for the group, but let's look at
the headers, shall we?

Not nearly "on-topic. Its totally OFF topic.

Post by David
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.ubuntu
Subject: Re: ping Old Guy
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 01:22:49 -0000

If you look at the 'References:' header, those are the message IDs of all
the articles of the current thread. It should take but a few seconds to
and not something previous. That post read
I think I've done something daft. All posts disappeared when I clicked
on one ! Not just this group, all of them in all groups. Didn't want
you to think I'd vanished.
His response indicated it was not a newsreader problem, but that there were
security issues, and that's why I didn't see a problem in responding (below).
If your news reader is indicating that the above article is not the start
of the thread, you need to get a real news reader.

Post by David
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869

This is the sort of f*-ing arrogance I have been complaining about on
this group. Your newsreader must be perfect, by definition. And mine must
be junk. Especially I guess as it starts with the name Microsoft. Well
just to please you (and I'm no special fan of theirs....why do you think
I am trying to get into Linux) I am using Pan which I am using with
Ubuntu. And guess what..they BOTH say that your post was a continuation
of my OP.

Post by Moe Trin
I realize that a lot of people are forced to use windoze at work, and
even at home while they try to get a Linux setup running. But even CERT
has been recommending avoidance of Outlook and Outlook Express for
years. There are real news readers available for windoze.

I don't trawl newsgroups at work. (I leave that to other CEO's to do
..you know who you are) I can use what I like ..or can get running..so
if there is a genuine problem with OE, and Pan then I would honestly like
to know. So may I ask any others to let us know if they think I am wrong
or you are and if so what newsreaders they are using. Might be a fruitful
exercise rather than everyone bashing everyone around as seems to be the
case at the moment.

Post by Moe Trin
'rpm -Va > /tmp/files.2.check'

]Can't say, as I don't use the KDE desktop. SuSE? OK, as root, run
]'rpm -Va > /tmp/files.2.check' (this will take a few minutes) and see
]what turns up. See the 'rpm' man page if you've never used that before.
]For the Ubuntu people - look at debsums
Did you look at the 'debsums' man page? That was put in there for a reason.

WTF is this all about. As far as I can understand nothing to do with my
original post.

Post by Moe Trin
Old guy

Even older guy...and getting older by the minute

Norbert Lieckfeldt

2006-11-29 20:55:32 UTC

Post by david
I don't trawl newsgroups at work. (I leave that to other CEO's to do
..you know who you are)

You leave it to other CEO's what? Or did you mean CEOs? You lost the
argument, let it go.

N.

David

2006-11-29 21:04:34 UTC

Post by david
I don't trawl newsgroups at work. (I leave that to other CEO's to do
..you know who you are)

You leave it to other CEO's what? Or did you mean CEOs? You lost the
argument, let it go.
N.

I don't believe I lost the argument but if you wish to think so that's fine
by me.
I even said you could have the last word and let you. Now you want to start
again.
So..if you feel it is morally right for a CEO of a charity to spend some of
his time at work making veiled threats about using another's email address
to get spammed then I think we really are from very different spheres. And I
don't believe that your board of trustees or whatever they are would really
approve.
I really do suggest we leave it here.

Norbert Lieckfeldt

2006-11-29 21:22:57 UTC

Post by david
I don't trawl newsgroups at work. (I leave that to other CEO's to do
..you know who you are)

You leave it to other CEO's what? Or did you mean CEOs? You lost the
argument, let it go.
N.

It wasn't me who wrote the above, it was you. 4 hours after the event.
You lost the argument and conceded the point by changing your reply
address and I thanked you for it. The purists would say that a dot zog
TLD can be created any day, though as it doesn't exist at the moment, I
believe that's a moot point.

You know nothing of me and my work and rather than addressing the issue
which is that you implied that you didn't really mind trawling other
people's domain name over the internet so long as yours stays hidden,
you resort to ad hominem attacks.

Well, others can play this game. It might be interesting to note, for
example, why a 55 year old Cambridge graduate consistently doesn't grasp
the difference between "advice" and "advise". It's interesting to note
that a 55 year old Cambridge graduate is unable to grasp and continues
to break Zen's terms and conditions which states that "Using
deliberately misleading headers ("munging" headers) in news postings in
order to avoid spam e-mail address collectors is allowed provided
appropriate contact information is contained in the body of the posting."

You continue to peddle the falsehood that I threatened to disclose your
email address[es? - shaft$&bury or c*&%burn?) on the internet when what
I did was try and make you understand what you were doing to other
people and that merely my falsifying your headers you don't necessarily
hide your identity.

Anyway. MT Newswatcher has this very useful scoring feature which many
other good Windows Newsreaders such as Xnews, for example (comes highly
recommended, as opposed to Outlook Express), also have which is called
scoring and maintaining a killfile. This will ensure that I will be
spared reading any more of your contributions to this group which will
no doubt please you no end.

N.

David

2006-11-29 22:06:50 UTC

Post by david
I don't trawl newsgroups at work. (I leave that to other CEO's to do
..you know who you are)

You leave it to other CEO's what? Or did you mean CEOs? You lost the
argument, let it go.
N.

It wasn't me who wrote the above, it was you. 4 hours after the event.
You lost the argument and conceded the point by changing your reply
address and I thanked you for it. The purists would say that a dot zog
TLD can be created any day, though as it doesn't exist at the moment, I
believe that's a moot point.
You know nothing of me and my work and rather than addressing the issue
which is that you implied that you didn't really mind trawling other
people's domain name over the internet so long as yours stays hidden,
you resort to ad hominem attacks.
Well, others can play this game. It might be interesting to note, for
example, why a 55 year old Cambridge graduate consistently doesn't grasp
the difference between "advice" and "advise". It's interesting to note
that a 55 year old Cambridge graduate is unable to grasp and continues
to break Zen's terms and conditions which states that "Using
deliberately misleading headers ("munging" headers) in news postings in
order to avoid spam e-mail address collectors is allowed provided
appropriate contact information is contained in the body of the posting."
You continue to peddle the falsehood that I threatened to disclose your
email address[es? - shaft$&bury or c*&%burn?) on the internet when what
I did was try and make you understand what you were doing to other
people and that merely my falsifying your headers you don't necessarily
hide your identity.
Anyway. MT Newswatcher has this very useful scoring feature which many
other good Windows Newsreaders such as Xnews, for example (comes highly
recommended, as opposed to Outlook Express), also have which is called
scoring and maintaining a killfile. This will ensure that I will be
spared reading any more of your contributions to this group which will
no doubt please you no end.
N.

Thank you Norbert,
That last post proves to me you are immoral (no defence of the time you
waste at your charity) disingenuous ( you did make veiled threats to expose
my email address) and anal ( I guess you have a copy of Sir Ernest Gowers
next to your PC). I hope those who your charity aims to help are treated
better than people who may be intelligent but dyslexic. As the English
language seems to be so close to your heart I can only offer you a
farewell..foxtrot oscar.

Moe Trin

2006-11-30 03:17:23 UTC

On Wed, 29 Nov 2006, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.ubuntu, in article

Post by david
Not nearly "on-topic. Its totally OFF topic.

In your opinion.

Post by david
This is the sort of f*-ing arrogance I have been complaining about on
this group.

Usenet is prone to misinterpretations - perhaps this isn't the right
media for you.

Post by david
I am trying to get into Linux) I am using Pan which I am using with
Ubuntu. And guess what..they BOTH say that your post was a continuation
of my OP.

Figure out how you can view the headers. Does the "References:" go further
back than message ***@212.67.96.135? If so, then your news server is
broken because that is where _THIS_ thread began. The "Message-ID:" and
"References:" header I'm replying to look like this:

Message-ID: <***@antispam.zog>
References: <***@212.67.96.135>
<***@compton.phx.az.us> <***@212.67.96.135>
<***@compton.phx.az.us> <***@212.67.96.135>
<***@compton.phx.az.us>
<456ce0f4$0$2445$***@news.zen.co.uk>
<***@compton.phx.az.us>

So first post of yours in _THIS_ thread is the next-to-last, from
"news.zen.co.uk". Do you see any reference to a post of yours before that?
That's a clue for you. This is not your thread. You didn't start it,
which in any case fails to give you ownership of anything either.

Post by david
I don't trawl newsgroups at work. (I leave that to other CEO's to do
..you know who you are)

I scan them - it's part of my job. I actually try to scan ninety newsgroups
every day, because I have to support several versions of Linux, as well as
three different versions of UNIX. When I can answer questions posed in
those news groups, I do. I've been doing so for about fourteen years.

Post by david
I can use what I like ..or can get running..so if there is a genuine
problem with OE, and Pan then I would honestly like to know.

Do look at the headers.

Post by david

Post by Moe Trin
Did you look at the 'debsums' man page? That was put in there for a reason.

WTF is this all about. As far as I can understand nothing to do with my
original post.

Quite right. That's because this isn't a followup to your original post.
Read the headers, and it's quite obvious.

Post by david
Even older guy...and getting older by the minute

Well, I know you are getting older - most everyone does. But as your
discussion has nothing to do with _THIS_ thread, perhaps you are the one
who would profit by ignoring it.

Old guy

david

2006-11-30 10:54:07 UTC

Post by Moe Trin
On Wed, 29 Nov 2006, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.ubuntu, in article

Post by david
Not nearly "on-topic. Its totally OFF topic.

In your opinion.

Post by david
This is the sort of f*-ing arrogance I have been complaining about on
this group.

Usenet is prone to misinterpretations - perhaps this isn't the right
media for you.

Post by david
I am trying to get into Linux) I am using Pan which I am using with
Ubuntu. And guess what..they BOTH say that your post was a continuation
of my OP.

Figure out how you can view the headers. Does the "References:" go further
broken because that is where _THIS_ thread began. The "Message-ID:" and
So first post of yours in _THIS_ thread is the next-to-last, from
"news.zen.co.uk". Do you see any reference to a post of yours before that?
That's a clue for you. This is not your thread. You didn't start it,
which in any case fails to give you ownership of anything either.

Post by david
I don't trawl newsgroups at work. (I leave that to other CEO's to do
..you know who you are)

Post by david
I can use what I like ..or can get running..so if there is a genuine
problem with OE, and Pan then I would honestly like to know.

Do look at the headers.

Post by david

Post by Moe Trin
Did you look at the 'debsums' man page? That was put in there for a reason.

WTF is this all about. As far as I can understand nothing to do with my
original post.

Quite right. That's because this isn't a followup to your original post.
Read the headers, and it's quite obvious.

Post by david
Even older guy...and getting older by the minute

Well, I know you are getting older - most everyone does. But as your
discussion has nothing to do with _THIS_ thread, perhaps you are the one
who would profit by ignoring it.
Old guy

Moe,
I did as you suggested and used another newsreader (Pan on Ubuntu) and
read the headers. It leads me to believe I am correct and that Baron
started this dialogue with you within the thread of my original post.

I have cut and pasted below and I think it says Baron posted
(4568a834...) in response to a message from Mark Carter (4568998d...)which
followed a message from mark vore (4567A152) which was a direct
reply to my original post (45673922...) See below.

CUT
--
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 20:33:33 +0000
From: Baron <***@home.com>
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <***@212.67.96.135>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.78.124.213
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.ubuntu
Path: news.zen.co.uk!fibonacci.zen.co.uk!nagel.zen.co.uk!zen.net.uk!dedekind.zen.co.uk!news.glorb.com!newsfeed.news2me.com!nntp1.phx1.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!212.67.96.135!213.78.124.213
References: <45673922$0$2432$***@news.zen.co.uk> <***@verizon.net> <4568998d$0$18048$***@news.zen.co.uk>
Subject: ping Old Guy
X-Trace: 25 Nov 2006 20:31:48 GMT, 213.78.124.213
Xref: news.zen.co.uk alt.os.linux.ubuntu:6167
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit

Hi Moe,

I think I've done something daft. All posts disappeared when I clicked
on one ! Not just this group, all of them in all groups. Didn't want
you to think I'd vanished.

--
Baron:
END OF CUT

If you feel I am still mistaken then please let me know but it does seem
to me that it is not my news-server that is at fault (as you suggested)
but it could be yours.
Grateful for your reply.
Dave

CBFalconer

2006-11-30 06:35:12 UTC

david wrote:
... snip ...

Post by david
This is the sort of f*-ing arrogance I have been complaining about
on this group. Your newsreader must be perfect, by definition. And
mine must be junk. Especially I guess as it starts with the name
Microsoft. Well just to please you (and I'm no special fan of
theirs....why do you think I am trying to get into Linux) I am
using Pan which I am using with Ubuntu. And guess what..they BOTH
say that your post was a continuation of my OP.

You'll go far. Ignoring polite advice and castigating those who
try to help you and even impart some elementary knowledge
encourages further help. Welcome to the PLONK file.

--
Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)
Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
<http://cbfalconer.home.att.net>

Baron

2006-11-29 22:41:44 UTC

Post by Moe Trin
On Tue, 28 Nov 2006, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.ubuntu, in

Post by Moe Trin
'rpm -Va > /tmp/files.2.check'

I get a file 378Kb, mostly missing items and unsatisfied dependences !
A very very long list !

Are you not using the package manager normally? This workstation has
roughly 350 packages installed, and I get about 110 lines, for about
3Kb and most of that is ownership changes and config files.
Does 'netstat -anptu' show anything unexpectedly flapping in the breeze?

Only port 111 ? TCP & UDP

Post by Baron
It was "Find" that was running.

Doing what? There should be nothing running that frequently out of cron.

Find was shown in top.

Post by Moe Trin
I haven't heard of any problems with SuSE 10.1. WTF?

I think I have found the problem..... Running out of disk space !
If I had looked at roots mail..... Well, there are several warnings.

Running which MTA? I'm running sendmail, and for that...
[compton ~]$ grep -A1 Person /etc/aliases
# Person who should get root's mail
root: inuprofin
[compton ~]$
If you're running postfix, there is a similar setup.

Post by Baron
Time to do a clean install on a new disk. Pity SCSI is so expensive.

Just ordered a new 36Gb drive ! Should be here tomorrow.

Post by Moe Trin
At work, we buy IDE for the workstations. When those get replaced, we
max out the RAM, yank the eye-candy video card, and replace the drive
with SCSI. When the servers finally get retired, some of them get
"tossed" (gently placed on a shelf where those in the know can
retrieve the "garbage"), so about half the boxes at home are old SCSI.
But having said all that, the current crop of IDE drives are proving
to be reliable.
Old guy

Send some of those SCSI over here ;-)

I will do a clean install on the new drive, format the 9Gb and make
that /home ! I might just try another distribution on the 4Gb drive! A
bunch of (K)ubunto CD's came yesterday.

--
Baron:

Moe Trin

2006-11-30 03:18:30 UTC

On Wed, 29 Nov 2006, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.ubuntu, in article

Post by Moe Trin
Does 'netstat -anptu' show anything unexpectedly flapping in the breeze?

Only port 111 ? TCP & UDP

And the reason you are running portmapper is?

Post by Moe Trin
Doing what? There should be nothing running that frequently out of cron.

Find was shown in top.

'ps afux' and see what started 'find'. This wouldn't be the nightly
cron job that updates the 'locate' data base would it? My systems run
24/7, so that runs via vixie-cron around 4 AM.

Post by Moe Trin
When the servers finally get retired, some of them get "tossed" (gently
placed on a shelf where those in the know can retrieve the "garbage"),
so about half the boxes at home are old SCSI.

Send some of those SCSI over here ;-)

Problem is the drives tend to be old and small. I think the largest drive
I have is 7 Gigs, and most of them are smaller than 4 Gigs.

Post by Baron
I will do a clean install on the new drive, format the 9Gb and make
that /home ! I might just try another distribution on the 4Gb drive! A
bunch of (K)ubunto CD's came yesterday.

I've been putting /home on a separate partitions as a minimum, and given
the bloat that Linux distributions are getting to, started using separate
drives about five years ago. Having /home/ and /var on separate
partitions or drives simplifies upgrades no end. Just tell the installer
that /dev/sda1 is the target, sda2 is swap, and let it go on from there.
After the install is finished, I can mount the real /home over the one
that the installer created - same for /var/

Old guy

Baron

2006-11-30 20:17:12 UTC

Post by Moe Trin
On Wed, 29 Nov 2006, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.ubuntu, in

Post by Moe Trin
Does 'netstat -anptu' show anything unexpectedly flapping in the breeze?

Only port 111 ? TCP & UDP

And the reason you are running portmapper is?

Good question ! I didn't know I was !
"ps sfux" "nobody 2531 vzs=1556, tty=420, stat=S, 19:00 /sbin/portmap
But I do now !

Post by Moe Trin
Doing what? There should be nothing running that frequently out of cron.

Find was shown in top.

'ps afux' and see what started 'find'. This wouldn't be the
nightly cron job that updates the 'locate' data base would it? My
systems run 24/7, so that runs via vixie-cron around 4 AM.

Nothing listed for "find"

Post by Baron
Send some of those SCSI over here ;-)

Problem is the drives tend to be old and small. I think the largest
drive I have is 7 Gigs, and most of them are smaller than 4 Gigs.

Most of my SCSI stuff is 4 or 9 Gb

Post by Baron
I will do a clean install on the new drive, format the 9Gb and make
that /home ! I might just try another distribution on the 4Gb drive!
A bunch of (K)ubunto CD's came yesterday.

Well the new drive came this morning! 36Gb 10K Maxtor. I will try and
get it installed this weekend.

Post by Moe Trin
I've been putting /home on a separate partitions as a minimum, and
given the bloat that Linux distributions are getting to, started using
separate drives about five years ago. Having /home/ and /var on
separate partitions or drives simplifies upgrades no end. Just tell
the installer that /dev/sda1 is the target, sda2 is swap, and let it
go on from there. After the install is finished, I can mount the
real /home over the one that the installer created - same for /var/
Old guy

I was going to put swap on "sdc1" along with Kubunto and let SuSE share
it. Put "Home" on "sdb1" and "Root, boot et al on the new "sda1" That
will give me 36Gb sda, 9Gb sdb and 4Gb sdc. The other 4Gb sdd as
scratch.

--
Baron:

Moe Trin

2006-12-02 03:36:43 UTC

On Thu, 30 Nov 2006, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.ubuntu, in article

Post by Moe Trin
And the reason you are running portmapper is?

Good question ! I didn't know I was !
"ps sfux" "nobody 2531 vzs=1556, tty=420, stat=S, 19:00 /sbin/portmap
But I do now !

There are several culprits - but it's likely started out of the boot
scripts. It _may_ be being used by sgi-fam which was used by KDE.

This is one reason when trying a new distribution - whether a new
distributor, or just an upgrade, we always spend a lot of time poking
at it - seeing exactly what it's doing. One part of that is a quick
look at the netstat output to see if there are any surprises. I'm getting
less involved in it, but our procedure was that five or six of us would
go into the lab with a new CD set, and play around with it on test boxes
for as long as it takes (average about a week) to come up with some
agreement of what the new release standard is going to look like - what
gets installed, what not. Once we get to that stage, we install it onto
a number of additional test systems that mirror our main servers, and
normal workstation configurations. We then run that for an eight week
backup cycle, to see if anything scary happens. If all is well, a crew
comes in over a weekend, and upgrades all systems. Monday morning might
be a little exciting, but I only remember having to roll back an upgrade
once, and that was only the print servers. I should also mention that
sometimes, the agreement was a resounding "we ain't goin' to install
this pig anywhere!". Red Hat 7.0 was one of those, but there were others.

Post by Baron
Find was shown in top.

'ps afux' and see what started 'find'. This wouldn't be the
nightly cron job that updates the 'locate' data base would it? My
systems run 24/7, so that runs via vixie-cron around 4 AM.

Nothing listed for "find"

It wouldn't be. Depending on the distribution, the job may be called
'updatedb' or similar. It's normally run at oh-dark-thirty when few
users are expected, because it's a real resource hog. Systems not
running 24/7 may be running anacron or fcron, and these run the
job some amount of time after power-on. You'll see posts to newsgroups
of people wondering what the heck is going on with all the disk
activity and slow keyboard response. If they're smart, they may do a
'ps -aux' or 'top' and see that "nobody" is running "find" and is
sucking CPU cycles like it's going out of style. They then wonder if
they've been r00ted or something.

Post by Moe Trin
Problem is the drives tend to be old and small. I think the largest
drive I have is 7 Gigs, and most of them are smaller than 4 Gigs.

Most of my SCSI stuff is 4 or 9 Gb

How about some Seagate ST11200Ns (1050 Meg) ;-) I think I've got
six of them, as well as a few ST12400Ns (2100 Meg).

Post by Baron
Well the new drive came this morning! 36Gb 10K Maxtor. I will try and
get it installed this weekend.

We don't see that many Maxtors, but we tend to avoid the 10K drives as
they seem to run hotter than the 5400 or 7200 RPM drives. As it gets
hot here in the summer (+40C is late Spring or early Fall - it can get
to +50C), our buildings - even the server rooms - are usually at 25 to
30C. That doesn't leave all that much margin for running a hot disk
drive, never mind a bunch of them.

Post by Baron
I was going to put swap on "sdc1" along with Kubunto and let SuSE share
it.

Depends on how much RAM you have - we try to avoid hitting swap for
more than low priority stuff. None the less, having a common swap is
definitely correct.

Post by Baron
Put "Home" on "sdb1" and "Root, boot et al on the new "sda1" That
will give me 36Gb sda, 9Gb sdb and 4Gb sdc.

Minor item - make sure all the systems are using the same file system
type for home. When Red Hat introduced ext3 in 7.2, I had an interesting
meltdown because I was sharing /home with a Debian install that was still
on ext2. Others may want to use a Reiser File System in place of ext3
which isn't compatible.

Post by Baron
The other 4Gb sdd as scratch.

Interesting name for /tmp/ and/or /var/tmp ;-)

Old guy

Baron

2006-12-02 14:21:00 UTC

Post by Moe Trin
On Thu, 30 Nov 2006, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.ubuntu, in

Post by Moe Trin
And the reason you are running portmapper is?

Good question ! I didn't know I was !
"ps sfux" "nobody 2531 vzs=1556, tty=420, stat=S, 19:00 /sbin/portmap
But I do now !

There are several culprits - but it's likely started out of the boot
scripts. It _may_ be being used by sgi-fam which was used by KDE.

Yes. Its been run from init.d/rc3.d/s07 and init.d/rc5.d/s05
I also found /etc/sysconfig/network/ifservices.template/S10portmap and
/etc/apparmor/profiles/extras/sbin.portmap

Post by Moe Trin
This is one reason when trying a new distribution - whether a new
distributor, or just an upgrade, we always spend a lot of time poking
at it - seeing exactly what it's doing. One part of that is a quick
look at the netstat output to see if there are any surprises. I'm
getting less involved in it, but our procedure was that five or six of
us would go into the lab with a new CD set, and play around with it on
test boxes for as long as it takes (average about a week) to come up
with some agreement of what the new release standard is going to look
like - what gets installed, what not. Once we get to that stage, we
install it onto a number of additional test systems that mirror our
main servers, and normal workstation configurations. We then run that
for an eight week backup cycle, to see if anything scary happens. If
all is well, a crew comes in over a weekend, and upgrades all systems.
Monday morning might be a little exciting, but I only remember having
to roll back an upgrade once, and that was only the print servers. I
should also mention that sometimes, the agreement was a resounding "we
ain't goin' to install this pig anywhere!". Red Hat 7.0 was one of
those, but there were others.

Post by Baron
Nothing listed for "find"

Yes you were right ! "fcron"

Post by Moe Trin
You'll see posts to newsgroups
of people wondering what the heck is going on with all the disk
activity and slow keyboard response. If they're smart, they may do a
'ps -aux' or 'top' and see that "nobody" is running "find" and is
sucking CPU cycles like it's going out of style. They then wonder if
they've been r00ted or something.

I must admit that is exactly what I thought !

Post by Moe Trin
Problem is the drives tend to be old and small. I think the largest
drive I have is 7 Gigs, and most of them are smaller than 4 Gigs.

Most of my SCSI stuff is 4 or 9 Gb

How about some Seagate ST11200Ns (1050 Meg) ;-) I think I've got
six of them, as well as a few ST12400Ns (2100 Meg).

Way, way back, one of the reasons I went with SCSI was performance and
that I had access to a good number of SCSI drives. Most of the old
ones are in the 1 to 4 Gb range. Most of them HP Badged Seagates. I
even had a number of Adaptec cards with 50 and 68 pin interface
connectors.

Post by Baron
Well the new drive came this morning! 36Gb 10K Maxtor. I will try and
get it installed this weekend.

I have a ducted fan pushing air up the front of the housing over the
drive bay and out the back. Although I confess that the air coming out
is quite warm, around 26 - 28 C. Nice in winter ;-)

Post by Baron
I was going to put swap on "sdc1" along with Kubunto and let SuSE
share it.

Depends on how much RAM you have - we try to avoid hitting swap for
more than low priority stuff. None the less, having a common swap
is definitely correct.

I don't think I have ever used any swap ! certainly When I have been
monitoring it, I've never seen any used ! Should it be logged
somewhere ?

The existing swap partition is 1Gb. But I do have 2Gb ram in this
machine. The most ram I have seen used has been 1.5Gb.

Post by Baron
Put "Home" on "sdb1" and "Root, boot et al on the new "sda1" That
will give me 36Gb sda, 9Gb sdb and 4Gb sdc.

Minor item - make sure all the systems are using the same file system
type for home.

I am glad you mentioned that ! At the moment I am using "Reiser fs" but
I noted that Ubunto uses EXT3. In that case I will stick with EXT3 and
drop Reiser this time.

Post by Moe Trin
When Red Hat introduced ext3 in 7.2, I had an
interesting meltdown because I was sharing /home with a Debian install
that was still on ext2. Others may want to use a Reiser File System in
place of ext3 which isn't compatible.

Post by Baron
The other 4Gb sdd as scratch.

Interesting name for /tmp/ and/or /var/tmp ;-)
Old guy

Scratch is just a generic name we/I have always used for storage area
that doesn't matter ! I hadn't thought of "/var/tmp and /tmp" though !

--
Baron:

Moe Trin

2006-12-03 01:40:11 UTC

On Sat, 02 Dec 2006, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.ubuntu, in article

Post by Moe Trin
There are several culprits - but it's likely started out of the boot
scripts. It _may_ be being used by sgi-fam which was used by KDE.

Yes. Its been run from init.d/rc3.d/s07 and init.d/rc5.d/s05
I also found /etc/sysconfig/network/ifservices.template/S10portmap and
/etc/apparmor/profiles/extras/sbin.portmap

rpm -qf /path/to/portmap to see what package it is, then 'rpm -q
--whatrequires' to see what you have that needs it.

Post by Moe Trin
You'll see posts to newsgroups of people wondering what the heck is
going on with all the disk activity and slow keyboard response. If
they're smart, they may do a 'ps -aux' or 'top' and see that "nobody"
is running "find" and is sucking CPU cycles like it's going out of
style. They then wonder if they've been r00ted or something.

I must admit that is exactly what I thought !

And that's why the job is normally run overnight. Less people to scare,
and more resources for the 'find'.

Post by Moe Trin
How about some Seagate ST11200Ns (1050 Meg) ;-) I think I've got
six of them, as well as a few ST12400Ns (2100 Meg).

We were using IBMs until they introduced the DeathStar. Then it was back
to Seagate.

Post by Baron
I even had a number of Adaptec cards with 50 and 68 pin interface
connectors.

SCSI-2? We bought a ton of Adaptec 2940UWs some time ago (got them on
sale, I guess), and that's what has been installed on all of the servers.

Post by Moe Trin
We don't see that many Maxtors, but we tend to avoid the 10K drives as
they seem to run hotter than the 5400 or 7200 RPM drives. As it gets
hot here in the summer (+40C is late Spring or early Fall - it can get
to +50C), our buildings - even the server rooms - are usually at 25 to
30C. That doesn't leave all that much margin for running a hot disk
drive, never mind a bunch of them.

I have a ducted fan pushing air up the front of the housing over the
drive bay and out the back. Although I confess that the air coming out
is quite warm, around 26 - 28 C. Nice in winter ;-)

Warm??? That's ambient in the server room. The outlet air is usually
about 5-8 C higher than the inlet. We also use the extra fans. (I should
admit that the past week has been _extremely_ cold, with both Thursday and
Friday morning slightly below freezing around sunrise.)

Post by Baron
I don't think I have ever used any swap ! certainly When I have been
monitoring it, I've never seen any used ! Should it be logged
somewhere ?

'free' will show it - and 'ps' puts the 'command' in parentheses to show
swapped out stuff. For example, many distributions start 6 or 8 VTs out
of /etc/inittab

[compton ~]$ ps aux | grep [g]etty
root 291 0.0 0.0 724 0 3 SW Sep 7 0:00 (mingetty)
root 292 0.0 0.0 724 0 4 SW Sep 7 0:00 (mingetty)
root 293 0.0 0.0 724 0 5 SW Sep 7 0:00 (mingetty)
root 294 0.0 0.0 724 0 6 SW Sep 7 0:00 (mingetty)
root 12725 0.0 0.0 724 4 2 S Oct 7 0:00 (mingetty)
[compton ~]$

and five of the six here are swapped out (the first exec'ed my login
shell).

Post by Moe Trin
Minor item - make sure all the systems are using the same file system
type for home.

I am glad you mentioned that ! At the moment I am using "Reiser fs" but
I noted that Ubunto uses EXT3. In that case I will stick with EXT3 and
drop Reiser this time.

There are several different file systems - Reiser, JFS and XFS are less
popular than ext3. But then, are you ready for ext4?

Actually, you stand less risk of trashing a Reiser/ext3 mixup than the
ext2/ext3, the kernel should barf on the wrong file system type. With
ext2/ext3, an ext2 mount will pick up an ext3 filesystem (but not vice-
versa) with no indication of the disaster.

Post by Baron
Scratch is just a generic name we/I have always used for storage area
that doesn't matter ! I hadn't thought of "/var/tmp and /tmp" though !

[compton ~]$ ls /net/james.webb/moe
build.tree dir.list lost+found others timezone
[compton ~]$ ls /net/hubble/moe
contrib lost+found new rpm.updates security
[compton ~]$

Extra partitions hanging of network drives.

Old guy

Baron

2006-12-03 12:55:49 UTC

Post by Moe Trin
On Sat, 02 Dec 2006, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.ubuntu, in

Post by Moe Trin
There are several culprits - but it's likely started out of the boot
scripts. It _may_ be being used by sgi-fam which was used by KDE.

Yes. Its been run from init.d/rc3.d/s07 and init.d/rc5.d/s05
I also found /etc/sysconfig/network/ifservices.template/S10portmap
and /etc/apparmor/profiles/extras/sbin.portmap

rpm -qf /path/to/portmap to see what package it is,

"portmap-5beta-747"

Post by Moe Trin
then 'rpm -q --whatrequires' to see what you have that needs it.

"no package requires portmap-5beta-747"

Strange ! Why would "portmap" be started if it isn't used ?

Post by Moe Trin
We were using IBMs until they introduced the DeathStar. Then it was
back to Seagate.

I had an IDE one of those ! Brilliant performance, until I stuck
another drive on the same cable ! Machine booted fine no problem.
After a shutdown and restart, no boot ! The damm thing just stopped
spinning. Its still sat on the shelf. Mybe one day I will find a good
one, swap the PCB, recover the data and then bin it !! IBM didn't even
bother replying to my Emails about the problem. Two or three years ago
now.

Post by Baron
I even had a number of Adaptec cards with 50 and 68 pin interface
connectors.

SCSI-2? We bought a ton of Adaptec 2940UWs some time ago (got them
on sale, I guess), and that's what has been installed on all of the
servers.

That what I'm using at the moment 2940UW. I also have a raid version
with 32Mb ram on board.... Pity its Micro-chanel.

Post by Baron
I have a ducted fan pushing air up the front of the housing over the
drive bay and out the back. Although I confess that the air coming out
is quite warm, around 26 - 28 C. Nice in winter ;-)

Warm??? That's ambient in the server room. The outlet air is usually
about 5-8 C higher than the inlet. We also use the extra fans. (I
should admit that the past week has been _extremely_ cold, with both
Thursday and Friday morning slightly below freezing around sunrise.)

The weather is quite mild here in Yorkshire, certainly so for this time
of year.

Post by Baron
I don't think I have ever used any swap ! certainly When I have been
monitoring it, I've never seen any used ! Should it be logged
somewhere ?

'free' will show it - and 'ps' puts the 'command' in parentheses to
show swapped out stuff. For example, many distributions start 6 or 8
VTs out of /etc/inittab

Mine shows 7 none swapped out !

Post by Moe Trin
Minor item - make sure all the systems are using the same file
system type for home.

There are several different file systems - Reiser, JFS and XFS are
less popular than ext3. But then, are you ready for ext4?

NO ! I will have to find out more about it !

Post by Moe Trin
Actually, you stand less risk of trashing a Reiser/ext3 mixup than the
ext2/ext3, the kernel should barf on the wrong file system type. With
ext2/ext3, an ext2 mount will pick up an ext3 filesystem (but not
vice- versa) with no indication of the disaster.
Old guy

I didn't know about that problem ! probably because I hadn't had to
suffer because of it.

--
Baron:

Harold Stevens

2006-12-03 14:27:03 UTC

In <***@212.67.96.135> Baron:

[Snip...]

IBM didn't even bother replying to my Emails about the problem. Two or
three years ago now.

FWIW...

Apparently, IBM was absolutely innudated with complaints about this series
of disks. IIRC this is the series mentioned in

http://www.dataclinic.co.uk/data-recovery-ibm-deskstar-hard-disk-drive.htm

as a part of the larger collection of diskdrive gotchas:

http://www.dataclinic.co.uk/hard-disk-failures.htm

ISTR rumors IBM actually informally asked high profile media folks to quit
covering the debacle--it was overwhelming their tech staff at the time.

(Probably a classic "WHAT WERE WE THINKING??" moment for IBM, in any case)

--
Regards, Weird (Harold Stevens) * IMPORTANT EMAIL INFO FOLLOWS *
Pardon any bogus email addresses (wookie) in place for spambots.
Really, it's (wyrd) at airmail, dotted with net. DO NOT SPAM IT.
Kids jumping ship? Looking to hire an old-school type? Email me.

Baron

2006-12-03 15:26:05 UTC

Post by Harold Stevens
[Snip...]

IBM didn't even bother replying to my Emails about the problem. Two
or three years ago now.

FWIW...
Apparently, IBM was absolutely innudated with complaints about this
series of disks. IIRC this is the series mentioned in

Now why am I not surprised !

At the time I got very upset about it ! My own fault in a lot of ways.
This drive was the one that I used for my data library backup. Whilst
it was fine all alone on its own cable, I belive that adding the second
drive killed it.

http://www.dataclinic.co.uk/data-recovery-ibm-deskstar-hard-disk-drive.htm

Thanks for this link. I'll go and have a look at it.

Post by Harold Stevens
http://www.dataclinic.co.uk/hard-disk-failures.htm
ISTR rumors IBM actually informally asked high profile media folks to
quit covering the debacle--it was overwhelming their tech staff at the
time.
(Probably a classic "WHAT WERE WE THINKING??" moment for IBM, in any case)

Yes I know what you mean, particularly just after I stuff my big foot in
my mouth and someone kicks the other leg away! ;-)

--
Baron:

Moe Trin

2006-12-03 22:33:37 UTC

On Sun, 03 Dec 2006, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.ubuntu, in article

Post by Moe Trin
then 'rpm -q --whatrequires' to see what you have that needs it.

"no package requires portmap-5beta-747"
Strange ! Why would "portmap" be started if it isn't used ?

The 'whatrequires' checks to see what other _package_ requires "this"
package. There isn't a simple step to see what may require a binary
at runtime. I would _guess_ that the package runs by default if it's
installed.

WAIT A MINUTE!!! You said WHAT???

Post by Baron
Yes. Its been run from init.d/rc3.d/s07 and init.d/rc5.d/s05

If you didn't make a typo, that shouldn't be running, because the boot
scripts run links with _capital_ letters K and S, not lower case. The
boot script should be something like

# Now run the START scripts.
for i in /etc/rc.d/rc$runlevel.d/S*; do

You may want to check that.

Post by Moe Trin
We were using IBMs until they introduced the DeathStar. Then it was
back to Seagate.

I know that most of ours had platter failures.

Post by Baron
Its still sat on the shelf. Mybe one day I will find a good one, swap
the PCB, recover the data and then bin it !! IBM didn't even bother
replying to my Emails about the problem. Two or three years ago now.

IBM sold the hard drive division to Hitachi in 2002. There was a class
action lawsuit about the drives, and IBM later offered US$100 to each
victim. I don't know what the status is now.

Post by Baron
That what I'm using at the moment 2940UW. I also have a raid version
with 32Mb ram on board.... Pity its Micro-chanel.

<rolls eyes> I shouldn't comment - I've got a VESA controller.

Post by Moe Trin
(I should admit that the past week has been _extremely_ cold, with both
Thursday and Friday morning slightly below freezing around sunrise.)

The weather is quite mild here in Yorkshire, certainly so for this time
of year.

I suppose it depends where. I'm at 1800' MSL, and it's decidedly cool right
now (19C on the back [North] patio at about 15:10).)

Post by Moe Trin
For example, many distributions start 6 or 8 VTs out of /etc/inittab

Mine shows 7 none swapped out !

You probably started eight (see /etc/inittab), and your system hasn't
needed the space yet.

Post by Moe Trin
There are several different file systems - Reiser, JFS and XFS are
less popular than ext3. But then, are you ready for ext4?

NO ! I will have to find out more about it !

I know it's starting to enter the 2.6 kernel tree, but I haven't heard
that much about it either. According to an item in the October Linux Journal,
it's supposed to handle larger file systems and do other tricks, but I
haven't had the time to stay close to it. There is also a Reiser4 in the
works, but I was never thrilled with the earlier versions, and I've heard
some horror stories.

Post by Moe Trin
Actually, you stand less risk of trashing a Reiser/ext3 mixup than the
ext2/ext3, the kernel should barf on the wrong file system type.

I didn't know about that problem ! probably because I hadn't had to
suffer because of it.

It can be quite thrilling. But that's what backups are for.

Old guy

Baron

2006-12-04 01:06:28 UTC

Post by Moe Trin
On Sun, 03 Dec 2006, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.ubuntu, in
WAIT A MINUTE!!! You said WHAT???

Yes. Its been run from init.d/rc3.d/S03 and init.d/rc5.d/S05

Och.... Yes your right ! I did make an error, they are caps

Post by Moe Trin
If you didn't make a typo, that shouldn't be running, because the boot
scripts run links with _capital_ letters K and S, not lower case. The
boot script should be something like
# Now run the START scripts.
for i in /etc/rc.d/rc$runlevel.d/S*; do
You may want to check that.

I did and commented out each line referring to portmap in all six files
I found it in. Thats three "S" and three "K" portmap no longer runs on
boot. Nothing has broken either.

Post by Moe Trin
IBM sold the hard drive division to Hitachi in 2002. There was a class
action lawsuit about the drives, and IBM later offered US$100 to each
victim. I don't know what the status is now.

Harold Stevens sent me a link to
http://www.dataclinic.co.uk/data-recovery-ibm-deskstar-hard-disk-drive.htm

I went and had a look, but non of the problems they describe seem to
apply to my drive. The platter drive motor measures OK but there is no
voltage on any of the pins, so it doesn't spin up. Probably turned off
by a chip failure in another circuit.

Post by Baron
That what I'm using at the moment 2940UW. I also have a raid version
with 32Mb ram on board.... Pity its Micro-chanel.

<rolls eyes> I shouldn't comment - I've got a VESA controller.

Wow ! I've never seen a VESA SCSI controller. I didn't know they made
them. VESA boards (486 era) didn't last very long. Certainly very few
passed through my hands. I do remember them well, as unreliable and
temperamental. Some people even used them as servers !

Post by Moe Trin
(I should admit that the past week has been _extremely_ cold, with
both Thursday and Friday morning slightly below freezing around
sunrise.)

The weather is quite mild here in Yorkshire, certainly so for this
time of year.

I suppose it depends where. I'm at 1800' MSL, and it's decidedly cool
right now (19C on the back [North] patio at about 15:10).)

Ah well, up top of a mountain I not surprised that its cold ! I'm
almost down at sea level ! 80 ft asl.

Post by Moe Trin
For example, many distributions start 6 or 8 VTs out of /etc/inittab

Mine shows 7 none swapped out !

You probably started eight (see /etc/inittab), and your system hasn't
needed the space yet.

Post by Moe Trin
There are several different file systems - Reiser, JFS and XFS are
less popular than ext3. But then, are you ready for ext4?

NO ! I will have to find out more about it !

I know it's starting to enter the 2.6 kernel tree, but I haven't heard
that much about it either. According to an item in the October Linux
Journal, it's supposed to handle larger file systems and do other
tricks, but I haven't had the time to stay close to it. There is also
a Reiser4 in the works, but I was never thrilled with the earlier
versions, and I've heard some horror stories.

Do you mean about the file system or the man ?

Post by Moe Trin
Old guy

I'm not going to be around for a couple of days, so I will give you a
shout when I get back.

--
Best regards:
Baron:

Moe Trin

2006-12-05 01:12:29 UTC

On Mon, 04 Dec 2006 in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.ubuntu, in article

Yes. Its been run from init.d/rc3.d/S03 and init.d/rc5.d/S05

Och.... Yes your right ! I did make an error, they are caps

Makes a difference

Post by Moe Trin
# Now run the START scripts.
for i in /etc/rc.d/rc$runlevel.d/S*; do
You may want to check that.

I did and commented out each line referring to portmap in all six files
I found it in. Thats three "S" and three "K" portmap no longer runs on
boot. Nothing has broken either.

The 3 S and 3 K "files are actually links to the same file (ls -l will
show this). Looking at the snippet above, the traditional way to disable
the service is to change the name of the link from 'S07foo' to 's07foo'
and the 'for' loop won't find them. You want to leave the 'K names
alone, as they stop the service if it is running. This would normally
occur in run-levels 0 (halt), 1 (single user) and 6 (reboot).

Post by Baron
Harold Stevens sent me a link

Saw it

Post by Baron
I went and had a look, but non of the problems they describe seem to
apply to my drive. The platter drive motor measures OK but there is no
voltage on any of the pins, so it doesn't spin up. Probably turned off
by a chip failure in another circuit.

Sounds reasonable. The motor, platters, heads, etc. are identical to the
SCSI version (the difference is the controller board), and SCSI being
for servers typically has a delayed start option (because you have
multiple disks and you don't want them all dragging Amps out of the
supply trying to start at the same time). Used to freak out the
interns when they'd start a server and hear five or six drive cranking
five seconds apart.

Post by Baron
Wow ! I've never seen a VESA SCSI controller. I didn't know they made
them.

Yups - these are from a small shop in Sunnyvale CA.us called Corporate
Systems Center - they're using a FutureDomain chipset. They also used to
build an ISA card that used four 16Meg x 9 SIMMs as the cache. They're
out of the business now unfortunately.

Post by Baron
VESA boards (486 era) didn't last very long. Certainly very few passed
through my hands. I do remember them well, as unreliable and
temperamental. Some people even used them as servers !

<raises hand> I've got two of them at home - Genoa motherboards DX266s.

Post by Moe Trin
I suppose it depends where. I'm at 1800' MSL, and it's decidedly cool
right now (19C on the back [North] patio at about 15:10).)

Ah well, up top of a mountain I not surprised that its cold ! I'm
almost down at sea level ! 80 ft asl.

I'm about 700 feet higher than "down town" (about 20 miles away), but
this is still considered flat land... would you believe tilted? ;-)
There's a hill about 4 miles from me nearly twice as high (3550'), and
within 20 miles there is terrain over 7900 feet. Yes, I know it's a bit
higher than Ben Nevis. Heck, the city of Denver calls itself "The Mile
High City" as terrain in the city itself runs up near 6000 feet. The steps
of the state capital building are officially at 5280' MSL.

Post by Moe Trin
There is also a Reiser4 in the works, but I was never thrilled with
the earlier versions, and I've heard some horror stories.

Do you mean about the file system or the man ?

Both - but I was referring to the file system.

Old guy

Baron

2006-12-08 19:56:41 UTC

Hi Moe ,

I'm back. New machine and new Email address.

--
Best Regards:
Baron.

Moe Trin

2006-12-09 00:28:22 UTC

On Fri, 08 Dec 2006, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.ubuntu, in article

Post by Baron
I'm back. New machine and new Email address.

Noted

Old guy

Chucky Bates

2006-11-26 03:30:37 UTC

David,
I'm using the Belkin F1DK102P 2-port KVM switch and I've been using it for
about a year now and I am having no problems with it when switching
between WinXP and Ubuntu. For me, it didn't matter which side of the
switch I connected my Linux box to or which box was booted up first. It
just works for me. I just have to hit the scroll lock twice to switch
from one pc to the other. Your switch is a F1DL102P and mine is F1DK102P,
I don't know if there is any difference between the two models of
switches. I have a Mitsumi keyboard, Logitech optical mouse and a
ViewSonic 17" CRT connected to my switch. Does your keyboard work when
connected directly to the Linux box? That would be my only guess. I wish
you luck with this.

Chucky

David

2006-11-26 16:07:38 UTC

Post by mike vore

Hi Chucky,
Thanks for confirming that it is possible with this setup. I checked and the
only difference between the DK and DL versions seems to be that mine will
switch audio as well as the usual KVM. At least this eliminates a few
issues. Thanks again. Appreciated.
Dave

Terry Wilson

2006-11-26 16:03:52 UTC

You might post on the Ubuntu forums, they helped me with my KVM
issues. I had the eratic mouse problem.

http://www.ubuntu.com/community/forums

David

2006-11-26 17:04:42 UTC

Post by David
I am running 2 PCs at home. One with WinXP and the other with Ubuntu edgy.
In a rush to tidy up my desk I decide to buy a 2-port KVM yesterday

(Belkin

Post by David
F1DL102P.) It said it works with Linux but........ of course now I have it
in my hands the keyboard doesn't respond to the Ubuntu pc although the

mouse

Post by David
and monitor feeds function okay. With WinXP its all systems go.
I can't find anything on the net except someone who says they can't get

the

Post by David
mouse to work but there again that doesn't necessarily mean its won't

work.

Post by David
Any ideas folk?
Does anyone have a working set-up with 2 pc's, xp and Ubuntu and a 2 port
KVM that works and in which case what's the make and did you have to

doodle

Post by David
with it to get it up and running. Seems like yet another long weekend at

the

Post by David
keyboard.
Thanks.
Dave

You might post on the Ubuntu forums, they helped me with my KVM
issues. I had the eratic mouse problem.
http://www.ubuntu.com/community/forums

Okay, good idea. Thanks

odie

2006-11-26 22:05:22 UTC

Post by David
I am running 2 PCs at home. One with WinXP and the other with Ubuntu edgy.
In a rush to tidy up my desk I decide to buy a 2-port KVM yesterday

(Belkin

Post by David
F1DL102P.) It said it works with Linux but........ of course now I have it
in my hands the keyboard doesn't respond to the Ubuntu pc although the

mouse

Post by David
and monitor feeds function okay. With WinXP its all systems go.
I can't find anything on the net except someone who says they can't get

the

Post by David
mouse to work but there again that doesn't necessarily mean its won't

work.

Post by David
Any ideas folk?
Does anyone have a working set-up with 2 pc's, xp and Ubuntu and a 2 port
KVM that works and in which case what's the make and did you have to

doodle

Post by David
with it to get it up and running. Seems like yet another long weekend at

the

Post by David
keyboard.
Thanks.
Dave

You might post on the Ubuntu forums, they helped me with my KVM
issues. I had the eratic mouse problem.
http://www.ubuntu.com/community/forums

Okay, good idea. Thanks

I've thought about buying a KVM switch as well, untill i had a look at
the program synergy (http://synergy2.sourceforge.net/). It depends on
what you want, but it works flawlessly and it is available for both
windows and linux. It is basically a program that shares one single set
of mouse/keyboard between two computers. It works great for me.

ERACC

2006-11-29 19:10:17 UTC

I use a Hawking 4-port KVM and it has worked with every OS and Linux
distribution I've thrown at it so far (including the *buntus). My company
sells PCs and PC products so I got it from our distributor when I was
ordering parts for a custom PC build for a client. However, you can find
these all over the 'net. Go to the URL below and click on the "buy it now"
URL on the top, right side of the page.

http://www.hawkingtech.com/products/productlist.php?CatID=39&FamID=23&ProdID=140

We do *not* use Windoze here as our SOHO business data is too important to
trust to anything other than Linux and FreeBSD. But we do take in sick
'doze systems to clean up from malware. The switch has worked with all of
those too so far.

Gene (e-mail: gene \a\t eracc \d\o\t com)

--
Mandriva Linux release 2006.0 (Official) for i586
13:00:59 up 1 day, 6:02, 11 users, load average: 0.30, 0.40, 0.27
ERA Computers & Consulting - http://www.eracc.com/ <- get VOIP here!
eComStation, Linux, FreeBSD, OpenServer & UnixWare preloads & sales

David

2006-11-29 19:54:03 UTC

Post by ERACC

I use a Hawking 4-port KVM and it has worked with every OS and Linux
distribution I've thrown at it so far (including the *buntus). My company
sells PCs and PC products so I got it from our distributor when I was
ordering parts for a custom PC build for a client. However, you can find
these all over the 'net. Go to the URL below and click on the "buy it now"
URL on the top, right side of the page.
http://www.hawkingtech.com/products/productlist.php?CatID=39&FamID=23&ProdID=140
We do *not* use Windoze here as our SOHO business data is too important to
trust to anything other than Linux and FreeBSD. But we do take in sick
'doze systems to clean up from malware. The switch has worked with all of
those too so far.
Gene (e-mail: gene \a\t eracc \d\o\t com)
--
Mandriva Linux release 2006.0 (Official) for i586
13:00:59 up 1 day, 6:02, 11 users, load average: 0.30, 0.40, 0.27
ERA Computers & Consulting - http://www.eracc.com/ <- get VOIP here!
eComStation, Linux, FreeBSD, OpenServer & UnixWare preloads & sales

Hi Eracc
Thanks for the info.
Appreciated
Dave

Thomas Tootle

2006-12-03 03:34:54 UTC