Evolution of a Ubuntu User.

[The Hooded Plumber]

http://linuxhaters.blogspot.com/2008/06/evolution-of-ubuntu-user.html

" Most Ubuntu users start as Windows users (though, occasionally, they
can be using other Linux's). But they all go through the same phases:

1. First install: Sweet! This thing actually kinda detects most of
my hardware that except for the things that I paid more than $100 for.
Brown is refreshing. This is the best distro evar!

2. 6 months later, first upgrade: Fuck, my ____ (insert wireless,
graphics, acpi sleep, whatever) broke! Oh but I must be a rare case,
since the "community" is testing all these releases. Ok, whatever,
I'll let this one slide and I'll spend the next twenty hours fixing it
and I'll post something about it in my blog, and then spend another 10
hours being helpful on ubuntuforums.com. Brown is getting boring.


3. 6 months later, second upgrade: Fuck, now my ___ (insert
something from the same list above. Inserting the same word as the
previous blank is also allowed). WTF is going on here? I thought these
time-based releases were supposed to be awesome.


4. 6 months later, third upgrade: F!$$!@$!@$!@#!@. Now my compiz is
blacklisted, my wifi doesn't work anymore, NetworkManager is
ass-raping me, and my laptop still doesn't sleep. WTF guys!? I'm so
pissed at that luser that told me this shit was better than Windows.
Brown is the color of ass playdough.

5. Some amount of time later: I'm fucking using the LTS. I can't stand
this shit.

6. 6 months later: This LTS is working a bit better, but now there's a
new release out. Oh and it has some pretty new feature I want, and
it's supposed to work with my graphics card better.

7. 1 hour later, after upgrade to non-LTS: F$@!#!@$@$@!#. I hate
Ubuntu. Fuckubuntu. Oh, but there are these hundred other distros I
should try...

At this point, some users wake up and figure out they should just buy
a Mac. Others are lost forever. "

[Jimmy Johnson]

Post by The Hooded Plumber
http://linuxhaters.blogspot.com/2008/06/evolution-of-ubuntu-user.html
" Most Ubuntu users start as Windows users (though, occasionally, they
1. First install: Sweet! This thing actually kinda detects most of
my hardware that except for the things that I paid more than $100 for.
Brown is refreshing. This is the best distro evar!
2. 6 months later, first upgrade: Fuck, my ____ (insert wireless,
graphics, acpi sleep, whatever) broke! Oh but I must be a rare case,
since the "community" is testing all these releases. Ok, whatever,
I'll let this one slide and I'll spend the next twenty hours fixing it
and I'll post something about it in my blog, and then spend another 10
hours being helpful on ubuntuforums.com. Brown is getting boring.
3. 6 months later, second upgrade: Fuck, now my ___ (insert
something from the same list above. Inserting the same word as the
previous blank is also allowed). WTF is going on here? I thought these
time-based releases were supposed to be awesome.
blacklisted, my wifi doesn't work anymore, NetworkManager is
ass-raping me, and my laptop still doesn't sleep. WTF guys!? I'm so
pissed at that luser that told me this shit was better than Windows.
Brown is the color of ass playdough.
5. Some amount of time later: I'm fucking using the LTS. I can't stand
this shit.
6. 6 months later: This LTS is working a bit better, but now there's a
new release out. Oh and it has some pretty new feature I want, and
it's supposed to work with my graphics card better.
Ubuntu. Fuckubuntu. Oh, but there are these hundred other distros I
should try...
At this point, some users wake up and figure out they should just buy
a Mac. Others are lost forever. "

Install LTS and then 6 months later overwrite it, sounds like you are
creating your own problems. Fix the problems and learn something, you
don't have to be a stupid Windows looser for the rest of your life.

[Ed]

Post by Jimmy Johnson

Post by The Hooded Plumber
At this point, some users wake up and figure out they should just buy
a Mac. Others are lost forever. "

Install LTS and then 6 months later overwrite it, sounds like you are
creating your own problems. Fix the problems and learn something, you
don't have to be a stupid Windows looser for the rest of your life.

Totally agree. Even if there were the odd problem with some obscure
hardware then I'd rather suffer that than the constant re-install cycle
of windows and then getting the install CD's from some equally obscure
corner or questionable driver site.

[JEDIDIAH]

Post by Jimmy Johnson

Post by The Hooded Plumber
http://linuxhaters.blogspot.com/2008/06/evolution-of-ubuntu-user.html
" Most Ubuntu users start as Windows users (though, occasionally, they
1. First install: Sweet! This thing actually kinda detects most of
my hardware that except for the things that I paid more than $100 for.
Brown is refreshing. This is the best distro evar!

If I wanted to pay a lot of money for individual components, you would
probably find that that they are BETTER supported in Linux when compared to
the cheapest consumer dregs you can lay your hands on.

[deletia]

Post by Jimmy Johnson
Install LTS and then 6 months later overwrite it, sounds like you are
creating your own problems. Fix the problems and learn something, you
don't have to be a stupid Windows looser for the rest of your life.

Alternately, you could install a random version of Ubuntu and leave
it completely alone. What's with the upgrade fixation? Sure, there are
newer versions available but do you really need to bother? Just what do
you think you're going to get out of it?

[Ed]

Post by The Hooded Plumber
http://linuxhaters.blogspot.com/2008/06/evolution-of-ubuntu-user.html
" Most Ubuntu users start as Windows users (though, occasionally, they
1. First install: Sweet! This thing actually kinda detects most of
my hardware that except for the things that I paid more than $100 for.
Brown is refreshing. This is the best distro evar!
2. 6 months later, first upgrade: Fuck, my ____ (insert wireless,
graphics, acpi sleep, whatever) broke! Oh but I must be a rare case,
since the "community" is testing all these releases. Ok, whatever,
I'll let this one slide and I'll spend the next twenty hours fixing it
and I'll post something about it in my blog, and then spend another 10
hours being helpful on ubuntuforums.com. Brown is getting boring.
3. 6 months later, second upgrade: Fuck, now my ___ (insert
something from the same list above. Inserting the same word as the
previous blank is also allowed). WTF is going on here? I thought these
time-based releases were supposed to be awesome.
blacklisted, my wifi doesn't work anymore, NetworkManager is
ass-raping me, and my laptop still doesn't sleep. WTF guys!? I'm so
pissed at that luser that told me this shit was better than Windows.
Brown is the color of ass playdough.
5. Some amount of time later: I'm fucking using the LTS. I can't stand
this shit.
6. 6 months later: This LTS is working a bit better, but now there's a
new release out. Oh and it has some pretty new feature I want, and
it's supposed to work with my graphics card better.
Ubuntu. Fuckubuntu. Oh, but there are these hundred other distros I
should try...
At this point, some users wake up and figure out they should just buy
a Mac. Others are lost forever. "

This is utter rubbish, can you back this article up with any proof? Even
if you have an edge case where something isn't working, its normally
easily resolved. This sounds like unfounded ranting, perhaps even make
believe.

[Jimmy Johnson]

Post by Ed
This sounds like unfounded ranting, perhaps even make
believe.

That's what he lives for. LOL

What's with all the X-posting, I don't go for that crap!

[*Hemidactylus*]

Post by The Hooded Plumber
http://linuxhaters.blogspot.com/2008/06/evolution-of-ubuntu-user.html
" Most Ubuntu users start as Windows users (though, occasionally, they
1. First install: Sweet! This thing actually kinda detects most of
my hardware that except for the things that I paid more than $100 for.
Brown is refreshing. This is the best distro evar!

It ain't brown anymore.

Post by The Hooded Plumber
2. 6 months later, first upgrade: Fuck, my ____ (insert wireless,
graphics, acpi sleep, whatever) broke! Oh but I must be a rare case,
since the "community" is testing all these releases. Ok, whatever,
I'll let this one slide and I'll spend the next twenty hours fixing it
and I'll post something about it in my blog, and then spend another 10
hours being helpful on ubuntuforums.com. Brown is getting boring.

6 months later...clean install.

Post by The Hooded Plumber
3. 6 months later, second upgrade: Fuck, now my ___ (insert
something from the same list above. Inserting the same word as the
previous blank is also allowed). WTF is going on here? I thought these
time-based releases were supposed to be awesome.
blacklisted, my wifi doesn't work anymore, NetworkManager is
ass-raping me, and my laptop still doesn't sleep. WTF guys!? I'm so
pissed at that luser that told me this shit was better than Windows.
Brown is the color of ass playdough.

More like Purple Windows Eater!

Post by The Hooded Plumber
5. Some amount of time later: I'm fucking using the LTS. I can't stand
this shit.
6. 6 months later: This LTS is working a bit better, but now there's a
new release out. Oh and it has some pretty new feature I want, and
it's supposed to work with my graphics card better.
Ubuntu. Fuckubuntu. Oh, but there are these hundred other distros I
should try...

Like Fedora ;-)

Post by The Hooded Plumber
At this point, some users wake up and figure out they should just buy
a Mac. Others are lost forever. "

A Mac? Yeah if they win the lottery or inherit a fortune.

Evolution of a Windows user:

Step 1- Buy a computer from Geeks R Us, making sure to purchase all the
extras like overpriced antivirus software and the M$ Orifice suite.

Step 2- Bring it home and activate Windows so M$ can make sure you're
not running a pirated copy.

Step 3- Eschew IE and install Firefox

Step 4- Encounter first BSoD and try to understand the error code using
Google if you can get the thing to boot again.

Step 5- Call tech support to help you figure out why you keep getting
BSoD's. You get routed to some outsourcing company overseas where some
guy reads from a script.

Step 6- By some miracle the BSoD's stop. Could be sunspots.

Step 7- A window pops up telling you Antivirus 2010 has detected 5019
infections on your machine. You click on this window thereby
relinquishing control of your PC to some overseas hacker.

Step 8- Call tech support and have someone read from a script on how to
remove this infection. It doesn't work.

Step 9- A friend tells you about Ubuntu. You download and burn a copy
and run a Live CD.

Step 10- Finding Ubuntu plays nice with your computer you install it
after ridding yourself forever of Windows.

Step 11- Deal with the steep learning curve of Linux but start getting
the hang of things.

Step 12- Experience some arcane issue with some package you installed
and post some poorly worded query on alt.os.linux.ubuntu

Step 13- Get told to "bugger off noob" by an aolu regular.

Step 14- Another 5 or 6 posters tell you to google it.

Step 15- An informative poster tells you how to resolve the problem.

Step 16- Live long and prosper.

[Jimmy Johnson]

Post by *Hemidactylus*

Post by The Hooded Plumber
At this point, some users wake up and figure out they should just buy
a Mac. Others are lost forever. "

A Mac? Yeah if they win the lottery or inherit a fortune.

I run Debian on my iMAC, I find Linux to be easer to use and more
productive. :-)

[*Hemidactylus*]

Post by Jimmy Johnson

Post by *Hemidactylus*

Post by The Hooded Plumber
At this point, some users wake up and figure out they should just buy
a Mac. Others are lost forever. "

A Mac? Yeah if they win the lottery or inherit a fortune.

I run Debian on my iMAC, I find Linux to be easer to use and more
productive. :-)

Not to get too far off topic, but I've been tempted to buy a new Mac
Mini eventually. At least it's not an iPhone or iPad :-)

[Huge]

Post by *Hemidactylus*

Post by Jimmy Johnson

Post by *Hemidactylus*

Post by The Hooded Plumber
At this point, some users wake up and figure out they should just buy
a Mac. Others are lost forever. "

A Mac? Yeah if they win the lottery or inherit a fortune.

I run Debian on my iMAC, I find Linux to be easer to use and more
productive. :-)

Not to get too far off topic, but I've been tempted to buy a new Mac
Mini eventually.

I wouldn't. I bought one to see what all the fuss was about, kept it
for long enough to make sure I really did hate it, and sold it again. If
you like, I can dig out the list I made of things that annoyed me about it,
but principal among them was that the Apple mantra "It just works" was
essentially a lie.

[felmon]

I wouldn't. I bought one to see what all the fuss was about, kept it for
long enough to make sure I really did hate it, and sold it again. If you
like, I can dig out the list I made of things that annoyed me about it,
but principal among them was that the Apple mantra "It just works" was
essentially a lie.

I'd be interested if you can find it without too much trouble.

if you don't want to post it to the group (off-topic), I'll give you my
email address.

Felmon

[Huge]

Post by felmon

I wouldn't. I bought one to see what all the fuss was about, kept it for
long enough to make sure I really did hate it, and sold it again. If you
like, I can dig out the list I made of things that annoyed me about it,
but principal among them was that the Apple mantra "It just works" was
essentially a lie.

I'd be interested if you can find it without too much trouble.

I can't find it of-hand, but I'm certain I wouldn't have deleted it.

On an on-topic point, what was the name of that Ubu application that
maintained a database of the indexed contents of files, so you could
search for things without having to trawl through them? It disappeared
with 10.04.

[HoneyMonster]

Post by Huge

Post by felmon

Post by Huge
I wouldn't. I bought one to see what all the fuss was about, kept it
for long enough to make sure I really did hate it, and sold it again.
If you like, I can dig out the list I made of things that annoyed me
about it, but principal among them was that the Apple mantra "It just
works" was essentially a lie.

I'd be interested if you can find it without too much trouble.

I can't find it of-hand, but I'm certain I wouldn't have deleted it.
On an on-topic point, what was the name of that Ubu application that
maintained a database of the indexed contents of files, so you could
search for things without having to trawl through them? It disappeared
with 10.04.

The package is mlocate.

[Hadron]

Post by HoneyMonster

Post by Huge

Post by felmon

Post by Huge
I wouldn't. I bought one to see what all the fuss was about, kept it
for long enough to make sure I really did hate it, and sold it again.
If you like, I can dig out the list I made of things that annoyed me
about it, but principal among them was that the Apple mantra "It just
works" was essentially a lie.

I'd be interested if you can find it without too much trouble.

I can't find it of-hand, but I'm certain I wouldn't have deleted it.
On an on-topic point, what was the name of that Ubu application that
maintained a database of the indexed contents of files, so you could
search for things without having to trawl through them? It disappeared
with 10.04.

The package is mlocate.

Since he's talking Ubuntu (and therefore default to Gnome) another
possibility might be the awful "tracker"?

http://projects.gnome.org/tracker/

Now in fairness I cant remember last time I tried Ubuntu which method it
used but whichever it dragged performance down something horrible as it
wasnt scheduling to "quiet period indexing" properly.

Worth being aware of anyway.

[Huge]

Post by HoneyMonster

Post by Huge
On an on-topic point, what was the name of that Ubu application that
maintained a database of the indexed contents of files, so you could
search for things without having to trawl through them? It disappeared
with 10.04.

The package is mlocate.

No it isn't. mlocate finds files based on their names. Essentially it
builds an index based on something like "find /" (obviously(?) it doesn't
actually do this) to save you having to do a search.

The thing I'm thinking of keeps an index of the *contents* of files, so you
can answer queries of the form "Which files contain the word 'macintosh'" and
it will tell you. IOW, a pre-indexed form of;

find / -type f -exec grep -l macintosh {} \;

(Obviously(?), it doesn't actually do this, either...)

I believe this is what Spotlight does on the Mac.

(Some swift Googling leads me to conclude that what I want is "Beagle")

[HoneyMonster]

Post by Huge

Post by HoneyMonster

Post by Huge
On an on-topic point, what was the name of that Ubu application that
maintained a database of the indexed contents of files, so you could
search for things without having to trawl through them? It disappeared
with 10.04.

The package is mlocate.

No it isn't. mlocate finds files based on their names. Essentially it
builds an index based on something like "find /" (obviously(?) it
doesn't actually do this) to save you having to do a search.
The thing I'm thinking of keeps an index of the *contents* of files, so
you can answer queries of the form "Which files contain the word
'macintosh'" and it will tell you. IOW, a pre-indexed form of;
find / -type f -exec grep -l macintosh {} \;
(Obviously(?), it doesn't actually do this, either...)
I believe this is what Spotlight does on the Mac.
(Some swift Googling leads me to conclude that what I want is "Beagle")

Sorry. I missed the 'contents of' bit. My bad.

[JEDIDIAH]

Post by *Hemidactylus*

Post by Jimmy Johnson

Post by *Hemidactylus*

Post by The Hooded Plumber
At this point, some users wake up and figure out they should just buy
a Mac. Others are lost forever. "

A Mac? Yeah if they win the lottery or inherit a fortune.

I run Debian on my iMAC, I find Linux to be easer to use and more
productive. :-)

Not to get too far off topic, but I've been tempted to buy a new Mac
Mini eventually. At least it's not an iPhone or iPad :-)

It's cool as a mini machine goes. Although the latest version is more
expensive than it needs to be based on some dubious design changes with
minimal marginal benefit. If you really want to get your feet wet, you
might want to try getting a closeout deal on the previous revision.

Of course you'll get much more machine for your money buying something
without a fruity logo on it.

The whole nonsense with the Apple-only partition map and boot mode is
annoying but straightforward enough to work around.

[Cybe R. Wizard]

On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 12:54:07 -0400

Post by The Hooded Plumber
At this point, some users wake up and figure out they should just buy
a Mac. Others are lost forever. "

According to your rant, if Forte's Agent (your newsreader) doesn't run
on the Mac, then you are.. what?

Cybe R. Wizard

[Megabyte]

Post by Cybe R. Wizard
On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 12:54:07 -0400

Post by The Hooded Plumber
At this point, some users wake up and figure out they should just buy
a Mac. Others are lost forever. "

According to your rant, if Forte's Agent (your newsreader) doesn't run
on the Mac, then you are.. what?
Cybe R. Wizard

Forte Agent runs extremely well on OS X with Crossover Mac!

[Cybe R. Wizard]

On Sat, 24 Jul 2010 16:55:48 GMT

Post by Megabyte

Post by Cybe R. Wizard
On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 12:54:07 -0400

Post by The Hooded Plumber
At this point, some users wake up and figure out they should just
buy a Mac. Others are lost forever. "

According to your rant, if Forte's Agent (your newsreader) doesn't
run on the Mac, then you are.. what?
Cybe R. Wizard

Forte Agent runs extremely well on OS X with Crossover Mac!

Runs on Linux, too, using WINE or Crossover Office.
What, though, is the point? There are plenty of fine email programs
and newsreaders native to Unix/Linux.

Just because something is possible doesn't make it sensible.

Cybe R. Wizard

[sctvguy1]

Post by Cybe R. Wizard
On Sat, 24 Jul 2010 16:55:48 GMT

Post by Megabyte

Post by Cybe R. Wizard
On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 12:54:07 -0400

Post by The Hooded Plumber
At this point, some users wake up and figure out they should just
buy a Mac. Others are lost forever. "

According to your rant, if Forte's Agent (your newsreader) doesn't
run on the Mac, then you are.. what?
Cybe R. Wizard

Forte Agent runs extremely well on OS X with Crossover Mac!

Runs on Linux, too, using WINE or Crossover Office.
What, though, is the point? There are plenty of fine email programs
and newsreaders native to Unix/Linux.
Just because something is possible doesn't make it sensible.
Cybe R. Wizard

What is sensible about Chip Foos dropping a huge Chevy engine in a Ford, or
vice versa? Of course it works, but it just doesn't say the "name" of the
manufacturer on the valve cover. Why bother the guy who is using Agent in
Wine/Crossover? At least he is using Linux.

[Cybe R. Wizard]

On Sun, 25 Jul 2010 08:59:23 -0400

Post by sctvguy1
Why bother the guy who is using Agent in
Wine/Crossover? At least he is using Linux.

So true and a good point. I did so when I first started with Linux. I
think it had more to do with the fact that I had just purchased the
full version of Agent than 'loyalty' to the app, though.

Cybe R. Wizard

[Féachadóir]

On Sat, 24 Jul 2010 21:33:04 -0500, "Cybe R. Wizard"

Post by Cybe R. Wizard
On Sat, 24 Jul 2010 16:55:48 GMT

Post by Megabyte

Post by Cybe R. Wizard
On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 12:54:07 -0400

Post by The Hooded Plumber
At this point, some users wake up and figure out they should just
buy a Mac. Others are lost forever. "

According to your rant, if Forte's Agent (your newsreader) doesn't
run on the Mac, then you are.. what?
Cybe R. Wizard

Forte Agent runs extremely well on OS X with Crossover Mac!

Runs on Linux, too, using WINE or Crossover Office.
What, though, is the point? There are plenty of fine email programs
and newsreaders native to Unix/Linux.
Just because something is possible doesn't make it sensible.

There are plenty of email programmes, but I've yet to see a linux
newsreader as simple and intuitive as Agent. I'm open to suggestions
though.

That said, I have fond memories of pine

[Cybe R. Wizard]

On Sun, 25 Jul 2010 19:49:11 +0100

Post by Féachadóir
I've yet to see a linux
newsreader as simple and intuitive as Agent. I'm open to suggestions
though.

Claws mail is fine for Usenet unless you want binaries.

Cybe R. Wizard

[J G Miller]

Post by Cybe R. Wizard
Claws mail is fine for Usenet unless you want binaries.

And if one is using a free news server, one is not going to get binaries
groups anyways.

If one is paying for access to a binaries news groups server, then
probably one is more interested in an nzb dowload program rather
than a reading/posting interface.

[highlandham]

Post by J G Miller

Post by Cybe R. Wizard
Claws mail is fine for Usenet unless you want binaries.

And if one is using a free news server, one is not going to get binaries
groups anyways.
If one is paying for access to a binaries news groups server, then
probably one is more interested in an nzb dowload program rather
than a reading/posting interface.

===================================
Since my ISP shortly will be dropping NG access to customers, I have
successfully adopted news.eternal-september.org which is free and
working well.

Frank in northern Scotland

[HoneyMonster]

Post by highlandham
Since my ISP shortly will be dropping NG access to customers, I have
successfully adopted news.eternal-september.org which is free and
working well.

It's unusual for a UK ISP not to provide Usenet, I think. Might I ask
which one, out of curiosity?

My ISP (NTL cable, now Virgin Media) provides Usenet but I use Eternal
September anyway. Works excellently for me, too.

[J G Miller]

Post by HoneyMonster
My ISP (NTL cable, now Virgin Media)

You do know that it is still NTL cable underneath who have entered
into a 30-year licensing agreement with Virgin Enterprises Limited
in order to trade using the Virgin branding?

[HoneyMonster]

Post by HoneyMonster
My ISP (NTL cable, now Virgin Media)

You do know that it is still NTL cable underneath who have entered into
a 30-year licensing agreement with Virgin Enterprises Limited in order
to trade using the Virgin branding?

I confess not. It is still of course the same physical cable. All I know
is that I originally got my broadband from NTL, but now I pay my combined
'phone and internet bill to Branson. When I 'whois' my own IP address I
see both NTL and Virgin Media mentioned.

[J G Miller]

but now I pay my combined 'phone and internet bill to Branson.

No you do not -- that was the whole point of my post.

It may be called Virgin Media but it is not owned by Branson,
although his company Virgin Entertainment Investment Holdings
is the third largest stockholder.

As I already stated, it is called Virgin because the
combined ntl:Telewest company paid to use the name, not
because it was taken over by Branson as many think.

See for example news of the rebranding at

<http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2007/feb/02/citynews.advertising>

If you want to see all the gory details, try

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTL:Telewest>

When I 'whois' my own IP address I see both NTL and Virgin Media mentioned.

That is because it is not considered worth the effort of
changing all the NTL details to "Virgin Media".

[HoneyMonster]

Post by J G Miller

but now I pay my combined 'phone and internet bill to Branson.

No you do not -- that was the whole point of my post.
It may be called Virgin Media but it is not owned by Branson, although
his company Virgin Entertainment Investment Holdings is the third
largest stockholder.
As I already stated, it is called Virgin because the combined
ntl:Telewest company paid to use the name, not because it was taken over
by Branson as many think.
See for example news of the rebranding at
<http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2007/feb/02/citynews.advertising>
If you want to see all the gory details, try
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTL:Telewest>

When I 'whois' my own IP address I see both NTL and Virgin Media mentioned.

That is because it is not considered worth the effort of changing all
the NTL details to "Virgin Media".

I have no doubt that you are correct.

However, much as it may disappoint you, I don't really care. As a home
consumer it works well, my connection is fast and reliable, and the bills
seem reasonable.

I could possibly get it slightly more cheaply, but it doesn't seem worth
the hassle of changing.

Is that so bad?

[J G Miller]

Post by HoneyMonster
However, much as it may disappoint you, I don't really care.

Even if you do not care, you should not spread misinformation,
and you should not be living with your head in the sand
believing that you are buying services from a Branson
owned and operated company.

Post by HoneyMonster
As a home consumer it works well, my connection is fast and reliable,
and the bills seem reasonable.

If you are more than happy with the service once fully conversant
with the facts, then that is your decision and to be respected.

However you should be aware of some very serious criticisms of
NTL:telewest (trading as Virgin Media) actions as an ISP

(o) Net neutrality

(o) Data pimping (Phorm)

and even more serious

(o) Wikipedia censorship

all detailed at

<http://en.wikipedia.ORG/wiki/NTL:Telewest>

Post by HoneyMonster
I could possibly get it slightly more cheaply, but it doesn't seem worth
the hassle of changing.

If you can get the service cheaper and without the negative issues
listed above, then you should consider it even if it does mean
some hassle.

Post by HoneyMonster
Is that so bad?

Without wishing to be offensive, is inertial laziness a bad thing?

[highlandham]

Post by HoneyMonster

Post by highlandham
Since my ISP shortly will be dropping NG access to customers, I have
successfully adopted news.eternal-september.org which is free and
working well.

It's unusual for a UK ISP not to provide Usenet, I think. Might I ask
which one, out of curiosity?
My ISP (NTL cable, now Virgin Media) provides Usenet but I use Eternal
September anyway. Works excellently for me, too.

========================================
My ISP Pipex has sent me a message that they will stop providing NG
access on 30 July 2010
I have been with them since 2004 and through that period have been able
to access NGs
Recently Pipex (earlier owned by Tiscali) has with Tiscali been taken
over by Talk-Talk Group.

Frank in northern Scotland

[M0WYM]

Post by The Hooded Plumber
At this point, some users wake up and figure out they should just buy
a Mac. Others are lost forever. "

Whilst others, probably most, have been running Ubuntu with no problems
but don't get to be meladramatic about it.

[Man-wai Chang]

Post by The Hooded Plumber
Ubuntu. Fuckubuntu. Oh, but there are these hundred other distros I
should try...
At this point, some users wake up and figure out they should just buy
a Mac. Others are lost forever. "

I believe you are using some odd hardware! It's true that Linux's
support for latest hardware is not that great, especially for mobile
computers.

[Chris Ahlstrom]

Post by Man-wai Chang

Post by The Hooded Plumber
Ubuntu. Fuckubuntu. Oh, but there are these hundred other distros I
should try...
At this point, some users wake up and figure out they should just buy
a Mac. Others are lost forever. "

I believe you are using some odd hardware! It's true that Linux's
support for latest hardware is not that great, especially for mobile
computers.

More accurate to say the vendors support for Linux is not that great.

Although vendors of Linux-based/Android-based phones will disagree with
that.

(I'm liking my Palm Pixi+ w/WebOS, and getting into "developer mode" is
easy.)

[Man-wai Chang]

Post by Chris Ahlstrom

Post by Man-wai Chang
I believe you are using some odd hardware! It's true that Linux's
support for latest hardware is not that great, especially for mobile
computers.

More accurate to say the vendors support for Linux is not that great.

Whatever... from the point of customers, it's just bad support.

Post by Chris Ahlstrom
Although vendors of Linux-based/Android-based phones will disagree with
that.

Linux hardware driver support is not yet mandatory according to many
countries' laws! :)

[Rob Lindauer]

Post by Man-wai Chang
Linux hardware driver support is not yet mandatory according to many
countries' laws! :)

Nor is Windows or Mac driver support...

[Man-wai Chang]

Post by Rob Lindauer

Post by Man-wai Chang
Linux hardware driver support is not yet mandatory according to many
countries' laws! :)

Nor is Windows or Mac driver support...

Yes, but Linux is supposed to be appealing to all walks of life, unlike
Window$ & Mac. :)

[Ed]

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Post by Man-wai Chang

Post by Rob Lindauer

Post by Man-wai Chang
Linux hardware driver support is not yet mandatory according to many
countries' laws! :)

Nor is Windows or Mac driver support...

Yes, but Linux is supposed to be appealing to all walks of life, unlike
Window$ & Mac. :)

It is more appealing. It is only less appealing if you're a virus or
malware author.

- --
Best regards,
Ed http://www.s5h.net/
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[zedkay]

Post by The Hooded Plumber
http://linuxhaters.blogspot.com/2008/06/evolution-of-ubuntu-user.html
" Most Ubuntu users start as Windows users (though, occasionally, they

Disagree. I have only met one person whom moved from Windows to Ubuntu.
All other people I know are flitting between Ubuntu, Solaris x86 and
some other Linux flavour.

[John F. Morse]

[Silly crosspost to c.o.l.a removed.]

Post by zedkay

Post by The Hooded Plumber
http://linuxhaters.blogspot.com/2008/06/evolution-of-ubuntu-user.html
" Most Ubuntu users start as Windows users (though, occasionally, they

Disagree. I have only met one person whom moved from Windows to Ubuntu.
All other people I know are flitting between Ubuntu, Solaris x86 and
some other Linux flavour.

You "disagree" on what? [And who cares?]

You may possibly know only one Ubuntu user, so your opinion really has
little value, if any.

Then you say, "all" (just how many is "all") "the other people are
flitting between [sic] Ubuntu, Solaris x86 and some other Linux
flavour." (Solaris is Unix SVR4, not Linux.)

"Between" is for comparing two items, whereas "among" is for three or
more. Your use of "flavour" indicates you are a British subject. You
should "know" English better than you display, including the use of
"whom" where "who" would be proper.

Even with your grammar decrypted and understood, your statement provides
nothing about where these Ubuntu, Solaris and some other Linux distro
users started. Can you provide proof these people never used Windows, or
were life-long MacAholics?

Please disregard any of my spelling and grammar errors. I'm just a
stupid American.